[Happening Now] Get answers about OTDR in today's Ask Amazon live Q&A!
Hi Sellers,
Welcome to our Ask Amazon Q&A with the OTDR team, focusing on your questions about On-Time Delivery Rate (OTDR). This thread will be open today, Tuesday, October 1, from 8 am to 5 pm PT.
Please include any questions you have regarding OTDR in this Ask Amazon event thread. Our partner team will be reviewing the questions that come in throughout the day and we’ll do our best to respond as soon as possible.
What is the new OTDR policy?
Effective September 25, 2024, to help reduce late deliveries and improve delivery speeds, we’re changing our OTDR policy. The new policy requires a minimum of a 90% OTDR without promise extensions to have seller-fulfilled products listed on Amazon. We have also changed our recommended standard for a great customer experience to 95% or greater OTDR for all seller-fulfilled orders, but only an OTDR below 90% can result in restriction of a seller’s ability to have seller-fulfilled products listed. This policy does not apply to offers using Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) because sellers are not responsible for on-time delivery promises for FBA orders.
We also changed the way we measure OTDR to now measures the percentage of your tracked seller-fulfilled items that were delivered on or before the seller-promised "Deliver by" date prior to promise extensions being added. Prior to this change OTDR was measured after promise extensions were added.
We designed tools to set accurate delivery dates, reduce late deliveries, and to meet or exceed the minimum OTDR requirement, and because Amazon is making calculations on your behalf that affect OTDR, you will get OTDR protection from late deliveries on items shipped through standard shipping if you use all three tools as follows:
- Shipping Settings Automation (SSA)
- Automated handling time
- Amazon Buy Shipping, to purchase shipping labels marked as "OTDR Protected"
Additionally, starting October 25, 2024, the transit time settings for shipping from China to the continental US (all states in the contiguous US, excluding Hawaii, Alaska, and US protectorates) will change. You’ll have more transit time ranges to choose from on your shipping templates, with options ranging from 2-4 days to 14-20 days. The maximum transit time will be reduced from 28 days to 20 days. If you currently have 14-28 days as your manually set transit time, it will automatically be updated to 14-20 days as a part of this change.
For more information, see the Order Performance program policy and On-time delivery requirements.
Thank you for joining today's Ask Amazon!
Note: We cannot provide legal advice or otherwise interpret regulatory requirements on situations that are specific to individual sellers.
34 replies
Seller_mVDGl5FuduOjS
I do not feel like its genuine and honest that an important detail you dont have highlighted is the standard shipping settings. I have been using all 3 and since you amazon didnt mention this in original post we didnt know about it until i contacted support. We are custom seller and have been using free economy shipping.
Seller_YvPJcV8cv0Kiu
Amazon Buy Shipping, to purchase shipping labels marked as "OTDR Protected"
- So you are saying USPS direct is not protected? (Isn't that nepatism?)
- About 40% of Amazon's orders are being shipped via USPS.
- So, if its good enough to cover (thru your shipping) - does that mean "we the people" are not good enough to be protected from mail fraud, by going direct thru USPS?
- In 2023 Amazon is using the same Courier for last mile, and rural areas - the name of that courier is USPS, the same as we use - but I find it hard to believe the Postal Service is aware their tracking numbers are not good enough for a seller going direct vs using (Amazon Buy Shipping) - Am sure there is some contracted agreement and Amazon is getting better pricing that someone off the street, or a high volume seller - yet the same tracking number is not going to protect sellers? (how is that not a Non compete?) - Any explaination would be fantastic, because (Unlike UPS or Fedex) making fake tracking numbers on USPS is a Federal Offense, there is no way a seller is going to be doing that.
Seller_Ggt6s7zXEwLbA
1. Why is OTDR based on items shipped but all the other performance tools are based on orders shipped?
2. Why do 100% of a seller's products need to use SSA, AHT and ABS to enable any of seller's products to get OTDR protection?
For example, as a Handmade seller there are some products my studio outsources for production, such as when I can't afford a $1,000,000 machine to make a small number of products, or I don't have space for certain machinery, or a company specializing in making a certain product can do it better than I can. Why does using an outside provider, which means I cannot buy shipping from Amazon, prevent me from having OTDR protection for any product at all?
3. Since OTDR is only accurate if based on a delivery time that is accurate, what is Amazon doing to adjust projected delivery times to ensure the underlying time for OTDR is accurate?
For example, Congress is currently investigating the post office because only 36% of orders in Northern Florida/Georgia are being delivered on time. If postal deliveries to those areas take an average of 7 days instead of 5, shouldn't the OTDR be based on 7 days instead of 5 for those orders?
4. Why is Amazon leveraging its dominance, for which it is already being sued as an illegal monopoly, to force more purchases from Amazon and decrease competition for its Merch on Demand program? Amazon's Merch on Demand uses outside providers to make and ship products, but by forcing sellers to use SSA, AHT and ABS sellers risk termination if they also use outside providers to make and ship competitive products. The result is less competition for Amazon's Merch on Demand giving Amazon more sales.
For example, Amazon uses outside providers to make and directly ship tshirts to consumers. If I use the exact same outside providers (I believe I do use some of the same providers Amazon uses) to make and ship my tshirts then since I am not buying shipping labels from Amazon I do not get OTDR protection and am at risk of termination. This unfairly preferences Amazon's Merch on Demand program and reduces competition. Please explain why Amazon is doing this.
Amazon repeatedly states: "Effective September 25, 2024, to help reduce late deliveries and improve delivery speeds, we’re changing our OTDR policy."
5. Please explain how the new policy reduces late deliveries.
Specifically, by reducing the number of days consumers are told to expect a delivery, from 8 to 5, Amazon is actually increasing the number of late deliveries. Please explain the math.
6. Please explain how the new policy improves delivery speeds.
Delivery is performed by outside companies, usually the US Post Office. How does Amazon changing its policy increase the delivery speed of an outside company?
Further, since there is no penalty for late delivery if a sellers uses SSH, AHT and ABS, isn't the only real effect of the policy to force more purchases of postage from Amazon? That is, if seller X uses SSH, AHT and ABS and the post office takes 10 days to deliver an order nothing happens. But if seller Y buys their own shipping and the post office takes 10 days to delver an order the seller is at risk of termination. That is, using SSH, AHT and ABS do not, in fact, appear to improve delivery speeds but only appears to force sellers to buy all their postage from Amazon.
7. Why are delivery by promise extensions no longer considered?
As I understand it, if a standard delivery is expected to take 5 days, but a hurricane puts Tallahassee underwater for a week and local delivery services are closed, then promise extensions would kick in so customers know it will take more time to deliver their orders. Why are sellers at risk of termination because of a hurricane? Why are sellers at risk because a windstorm knocks out power to a post office and deliveries are delayed a day? Why are sellers at risk because some contractor cuts too deep and knocks out electrical power in an area and causes mail to be delayed? Why are sellers at risk because a squirrel knocks a tree branch into an electrical unit which knocks out power causing all mail delivery from that post office (which could be 100% of a seller's orders) to be delayed?
Seller_TF5qj8nvLsVAS
Hi @Jameson_AmazonI've been trying to get the seller override exemption removed off my automated handling time so I can get OTDR protection since i did not know this when I asked for it. Can you help anyway to get it removed. I've been trying to get help for a month now. I am quite scared now as my OTDR metrics is getting lower everyday.
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I have noticed on the report that:
Orders that contain multiple ASINs/SKUs are duplicated - essentially making achieving 90%+ harder if you have 2+ different SKUs in one order on multiple orders. It is still just one order being delivered, why would it duplicate like this?
Then the OTDR protected orders are still showing up on the report, so why is the option to even buy shipping on Amazon, and it still counts against us?
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I would hope with such an aggressive policy update to FBM sellers, Amazon would be more open to providing light & fit tracking options for orders that are less than 16 oz. Like eBay and Etsy provide on their platforms.
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Absent answers to questions you're straight-up ignoring and will continue to ignore, we have to presume that this is designed simply to push us to FBA and (more expensive) Amazon shipping, without explicitly requiring that, because that would be an obvious anti-trust violation. So, a lot of our questions are moot, because you simply cannot and will not explain e.g. how relying on automation settings (which we've repeatedly demonstrated are broken) will move our shipments any faster, or how lowering thresholds will improve the percentage of shipments meeting those thresholds, or why HANDLING time automation has jack to do with TRANSIT times.
So, we have to head into the weeds and ask the less important questions, like ... Mods say:
"If there is a major disruption event that impacts all sellers shipping to a specific region, we will not count deliveries that are late as a result in your OTDR. Whether a disruption is considered to be major is a discretionary decision made by Amazon."
I see this nowhere in the TOS or documentation. Is Amazon now making declarations in the fora legally binding, and if not, what are these promises worth?
Based on the huge numbers of sellers we've seen impacted by Amazon not following their concrete policies, how much reassurance should we take when Amazon makes arbitrary decisions, like whether or not an event is an event?
How about shipments FROM an impacted region, or that have to route around it? How about if a shipping hub is in that region?
WHY ARE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTS OF GOD?
Why remove promise extensions -- which explicitly deal with these events -- from the metric? Why are we now effectively required to deliver faster than the customer expects us to (for promise extension events)?
Why is Amazon not held to the same standard as sellers? This doesn't apply to FBA or Amazon-as-seller. How is that not anti-trust-y? Why can Amazon ship my Prime purchases later/slower than I ship my 3PS sales and have no repercussions? Why are my metrics publicly displayed and/or can result in account closure and seizure of goods and funds, but 1PS has no metrics at all? Can Amazon in fact demonstrate that FBA ships faster than FBM on average? Faster than my account? If there's no evidence of that, why would shifting to FBA offer me protections for the very thing it's failing at?
If transit time is so important, why are you continuing to onboard sellers shipping from China at an alarming rate?
Why is the identical label bought directly from a shipper not offered the same protections as when Amazon takes a vig for selling the same label? How is that different than extortion?
Why do you appear to despise FBA so much? What ever happened to "dance with those that brung ya' "? Have you no shame at all?
Seller_0xdtD36hDLHBC
@Jameson_Amazon
I have been asking this question since July. No one has answered.
Sellers who have a handling time gap of 2 or more days will be forced to use AHT. However, Promised Handling time is being calculated incorrectly. I've had a case open for nearly two months with no resolution.
How is promised handling time calculated?
and Will the (current) incorrect calculations ever be corrected.
Case ID: 15776313681 (opened August 5)
Seller_Zw8LsZUQSH440
Overall, I think that the new OTDR policies are great. They have solved the long-standing problem of customers not placing orders because they thought it would take too long for the order to arrive. Unfortunately, they have resulted in a significant increase in shipping costs. This increase could be addressed by making a few changes to the delivery estimates and buying shipping options.
- Delivery estimates: Often, UPS can deliver within two days to our region and even to adjacent regions. However, since UPS uses dynamic pricing, costs can vary by more than 2X even to the same address. Amazon could keep track of the average UPS rates per region over, say, 90 days. If a delivery estimate varies by more than 10%, then UPS should not be used to estimate delivery dates and should not appear as an option when buying shipping.
- PO Boxes and UPS: PO Boxes and UPS don’t go together because UPS doesn’t deliver to PO Boxes. We often get two-day delivery estimates for PO Boxes, which are impossible to meet without using an expensive Express Mail option. Additionally, UPS has sometimes been the only OTDR-protected option for PO Box addresses, which doesn’t make sense.
- Carrier adjustments: While we haven’t been significantly affected so far, it’s clear that carriers sometimes don’t calibrate their measuring tools properly or make mistakes, like measuring stacked boxes instead of single packages. Amazon’s position that such issues are between the seller and the carriers is flawed, especially when there is no way to dispute these charges. Label purchases from Amazon should be treated like any other customer order, with Amazon being responsible for monitoring the accuracy of adjustments.
- OTDR metrics and risks: Given the risks associated with OTDR metrics, there are some changes and clarifications that are necessary. First, our local post office doesn’t have the manpower to scan all packages individually, so we rely on scan sheets. Packages then go to the regional sorting facility where, in general, they are scanned the same day, but not always. Sometimes, they aren’t scanned until the next day. We need assurance that scan sheets are valid proof of shipping. Second, for OTDR metrics, "Available for pickup" should be considered "Delivered." We have no control over how long it takes for customers to pick up packages from the carrier’s location. Third, we need confirmation that early shipping or delivery won’t negatively affect our metrics. As of now, we are averaging 2.4 days ahead of promised delivery dates, and there has been no impact on our metrics, but it would be nice to have the official position clarified.
In closing, I believe we are close to having an excellent system, but some changes and clarifications are still needed.
[Happening Now] Get answers about OTDR in today's Ask Amazon live Q&A!
Hi Sellers,
Welcome to our Ask Amazon Q&A with the OTDR team, focusing on your questions about On-Time Delivery Rate (OTDR). This thread will be open today, Tuesday, October 1, from 8 am to 5 pm PT.
Please include any questions you have regarding OTDR in this Ask Amazon event thread. Our partner team will be reviewing the questions that come in throughout the day and we’ll do our best to respond as soon as possible.
What is the new OTDR policy?
Effective September 25, 2024, to help reduce late deliveries and improve delivery speeds, we’re changing our OTDR policy. The new policy requires a minimum of a 90% OTDR without promise extensions to have seller-fulfilled products listed on Amazon. We have also changed our recommended standard for a great customer experience to 95% or greater OTDR for all seller-fulfilled orders, but only an OTDR below 90% can result in restriction of a seller’s ability to have seller-fulfilled products listed. This policy does not apply to offers using Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) because sellers are not responsible for on-time delivery promises for FBA orders.
We also changed the way we measure OTDR to now measures the percentage of your tracked seller-fulfilled items that were delivered on or before the seller-promised "Deliver by" date prior to promise extensions being added. Prior to this change OTDR was measured after promise extensions were added.
We designed tools to set accurate delivery dates, reduce late deliveries, and to meet or exceed the minimum OTDR requirement, and because Amazon is making calculations on your behalf that affect OTDR, you will get OTDR protection from late deliveries on items shipped through standard shipping if you use all three tools as follows:
- Shipping Settings Automation (SSA)
- Automated handling time
- Amazon Buy Shipping, to purchase shipping labels marked as "OTDR Protected"
Additionally, starting October 25, 2024, the transit time settings for shipping from China to the continental US (all states in the contiguous US, excluding Hawaii, Alaska, and US protectorates) will change. You’ll have more transit time ranges to choose from on your shipping templates, with options ranging from 2-4 days to 14-20 days. The maximum transit time will be reduced from 28 days to 20 days. If you currently have 14-28 days as your manually set transit time, it will automatically be updated to 14-20 days as a part of this change.
For more information, see the Order Performance program policy and On-time delivery requirements.
Thank you for joining today's Ask Amazon!
Note: We cannot provide legal advice or otherwise interpret regulatory requirements on situations that are specific to individual sellers.
[Happening Now] Get answers about OTDR in today's Ask Amazon live Q&A!
Hi Sellers,
Welcome to our Ask Amazon Q&A with the OTDR team, focusing on your questions about On-Time Delivery Rate (OTDR). This thread will be open today, Tuesday, October 1, from 8 am to 5 pm PT.
Please include any questions you have regarding OTDR in this Ask Amazon event thread. Our partner team will be reviewing the questions that come in throughout the day and we’ll do our best to respond as soon as possible.
What is the new OTDR policy?
Effective September 25, 2024, to help reduce late deliveries and improve delivery speeds, we’re changing our OTDR policy. The new policy requires a minimum of a 90% OTDR without promise extensions to have seller-fulfilled products listed on Amazon. We have also changed our recommended standard for a great customer experience to 95% or greater OTDR for all seller-fulfilled orders, but only an OTDR below 90% can result in restriction of a seller’s ability to have seller-fulfilled products listed. This policy does not apply to offers using Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) because sellers are not responsible for on-time delivery promises for FBA orders.
We also changed the way we measure OTDR to now measures the percentage of your tracked seller-fulfilled items that were delivered on or before the seller-promised "Deliver by" date prior to promise extensions being added. Prior to this change OTDR was measured after promise extensions were added.
We designed tools to set accurate delivery dates, reduce late deliveries, and to meet or exceed the minimum OTDR requirement, and because Amazon is making calculations on your behalf that affect OTDR, you will get OTDR protection from late deliveries on items shipped through standard shipping if you use all three tools as follows:
- Shipping Settings Automation (SSA)
- Automated handling time
- Amazon Buy Shipping, to purchase shipping labels marked as "OTDR Protected"
Additionally, starting October 25, 2024, the transit time settings for shipping from China to the continental US (all states in the contiguous US, excluding Hawaii, Alaska, and US protectorates) will change. You’ll have more transit time ranges to choose from on your shipping templates, with options ranging from 2-4 days to 14-20 days. The maximum transit time will be reduced from 28 days to 20 days. If you currently have 14-28 days as your manually set transit time, it will automatically be updated to 14-20 days as a part of this change.
For more information, see the Order Performance program policy and On-time delivery requirements.
Thank you for joining today's Ask Amazon!
Note: We cannot provide legal advice or otherwise interpret regulatory requirements on situations that are specific to individual sellers.
34 replies
34 replies
Seller_mVDGl5FuduOjS
I do not feel like its genuine and honest that an important detail you dont have highlighted is the standard shipping settings. I have been using all 3 and since you amazon didnt mention this in original post we didnt know about it until i contacted support. We are custom seller and have been using free economy shipping.
Seller_YvPJcV8cv0Kiu
Amazon Buy Shipping, to purchase shipping labels marked as "OTDR Protected"
- So you are saying USPS direct is not protected? (Isn't that nepatism?)
- About 40% of Amazon's orders are being shipped via USPS.
- So, if its good enough to cover (thru your shipping) - does that mean "we the people" are not good enough to be protected from mail fraud, by going direct thru USPS?
- In 2023 Amazon is using the same Courier for last mile, and rural areas - the name of that courier is USPS, the same as we use - but I find it hard to believe the Postal Service is aware their tracking numbers are not good enough for a seller going direct vs using (Amazon Buy Shipping) - Am sure there is some contracted agreement and Amazon is getting better pricing that someone off the street, or a high volume seller - yet the same tracking number is not going to protect sellers? (how is that not a Non compete?) - Any explaination would be fantastic, because (Unlike UPS or Fedex) making fake tracking numbers on USPS is a Federal Offense, there is no way a seller is going to be doing that.
Seller_Ggt6s7zXEwLbA
1. Why is OTDR based on items shipped but all the other performance tools are based on orders shipped?
2. Why do 100% of a seller's products need to use SSA, AHT and ABS to enable any of seller's products to get OTDR protection?
For example, as a Handmade seller there are some products my studio outsources for production, such as when I can't afford a $1,000,000 machine to make a small number of products, or I don't have space for certain machinery, or a company specializing in making a certain product can do it better than I can. Why does using an outside provider, which means I cannot buy shipping from Amazon, prevent me from having OTDR protection for any product at all?
3. Since OTDR is only accurate if based on a delivery time that is accurate, what is Amazon doing to adjust projected delivery times to ensure the underlying time for OTDR is accurate?
For example, Congress is currently investigating the post office because only 36% of orders in Northern Florida/Georgia are being delivered on time. If postal deliveries to those areas take an average of 7 days instead of 5, shouldn't the OTDR be based on 7 days instead of 5 for those orders?
4. Why is Amazon leveraging its dominance, for which it is already being sued as an illegal monopoly, to force more purchases from Amazon and decrease competition for its Merch on Demand program? Amazon's Merch on Demand uses outside providers to make and ship products, but by forcing sellers to use SSA, AHT and ABS sellers risk termination if they also use outside providers to make and ship competitive products. The result is less competition for Amazon's Merch on Demand giving Amazon more sales.
For example, Amazon uses outside providers to make and directly ship tshirts to consumers. If I use the exact same outside providers (I believe I do use some of the same providers Amazon uses) to make and ship my tshirts then since I am not buying shipping labels from Amazon I do not get OTDR protection and am at risk of termination. This unfairly preferences Amazon's Merch on Demand program and reduces competition. Please explain why Amazon is doing this.
Amazon repeatedly states: "Effective September 25, 2024, to help reduce late deliveries and improve delivery speeds, we’re changing our OTDR policy."
5. Please explain how the new policy reduces late deliveries.
Specifically, by reducing the number of days consumers are told to expect a delivery, from 8 to 5, Amazon is actually increasing the number of late deliveries. Please explain the math.
6. Please explain how the new policy improves delivery speeds.
Delivery is performed by outside companies, usually the US Post Office. How does Amazon changing its policy increase the delivery speed of an outside company?
Further, since there is no penalty for late delivery if a sellers uses SSH, AHT and ABS, isn't the only real effect of the policy to force more purchases of postage from Amazon? That is, if seller X uses SSH, AHT and ABS and the post office takes 10 days to deliver an order nothing happens. But if seller Y buys their own shipping and the post office takes 10 days to delver an order the seller is at risk of termination. That is, using SSH, AHT and ABS do not, in fact, appear to improve delivery speeds but only appears to force sellers to buy all their postage from Amazon.
7. Why are delivery by promise extensions no longer considered?
As I understand it, if a standard delivery is expected to take 5 days, but a hurricane puts Tallahassee underwater for a week and local delivery services are closed, then promise extensions would kick in so customers know it will take more time to deliver their orders. Why are sellers at risk of termination because of a hurricane? Why are sellers at risk because a windstorm knocks out power to a post office and deliveries are delayed a day? Why are sellers at risk because some contractor cuts too deep and knocks out electrical power in an area and causes mail to be delayed? Why are sellers at risk because a squirrel knocks a tree branch into an electrical unit which knocks out power causing all mail delivery from that post office (which could be 100% of a seller's orders) to be delayed?
Seller_TF5qj8nvLsVAS
Hi @Jameson_AmazonI've been trying to get the seller override exemption removed off my automated handling time so I can get OTDR protection since i did not know this when I asked for it. Can you help anyway to get it removed. I've been trying to get help for a month now. I am quite scared now as my OTDR metrics is getting lower everyday.
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I have noticed on the report that:
Orders that contain multiple ASINs/SKUs are duplicated - essentially making achieving 90%+ harder if you have 2+ different SKUs in one order on multiple orders. It is still just one order being delivered, why would it duplicate like this?
Then the OTDR protected orders are still showing up on the report, so why is the option to even buy shipping on Amazon, and it still counts against us?
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I would hope with such an aggressive policy update to FBM sellers, Amazon would be more open to providing light & fit tracking options for orders that are less than 16 oz. Like eBay and Etsy provide on their platforms.
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Absent answers to questions you're straight-up ignoring and will continue to ignore, we have to presume that this is designed simply to push us to FBA and (more expensive) Amazon shipping, without explicitly requiring that, because that would be an obvious anti-trust violation. So, a lot of our questions are moot, because you simply cannot and will not explain e.g. how relying on automation settings (which we've repeatedly demonstrated are broken) will move our shipments any faster, or how lowering thresholds will improve the percentage of shipments meeting those thresholds, or why HANDLING time automation has jack to do with TRANSIT times.
So, we have to head into the weeds and ask the less important questions, like ... Mods say:
"If there is a major disruption event that impacts all sellers shipping to a specific region, we will not count deliveries that are late as a result in your OTDR. Whether a disruption is considered to be major is a discretionary decision made by Amazon."
I see this nowhere in the TOS or documentation. Is Amazon now making declarations in the fora legally binding, and if not, what are these promises worth?
Based on the huge numbers of sellers we've seen impacted by Amazon not following their concrete policies, how much reassurance should we take when Amazon makes arbitrary decisions, like whether or not an event is an event?
How about shipments FROM an impacted region, or that have to route around it? How about if a shipping hub is in that region?
WHY ARE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTS OF GOD?
Why remove promise extensions -- which explicitly deal with these events -- from the metric? Why are we now effectively required to deliver faster than the customer expects us to (for promise extension events)?
Why is Amazon not held to the same standard as sellers? This doesn't apply to FBA or Amazon-as-seller. How is that not anti-trust-y? Why can Amazon ship my Prime purchases later/slower than I ship my 3PS sales and have no repercussions? Why are my metrics publicly displayed and/or can result in account closure and seizure of goods and funds, but 1PS has no metrics at all? Can Amazon in fact demonstrate that FBA ships faster than FBM on average? Faster than my account? If there's no evidence of that, why would shifting to FBA offer me protections for the very thing it's failing at?
If transit time is so important, why are you continuing to onboard sellers shipping from China at an alarming rate?
Why is the identical label bought directly from a shipper not offered the same protections as when Amazon takes a vig for selling the same label? How is that different than extortion?
Why do you appear to despise FBA so much? What ever happened to "dance with those that brung ya' "? Have you no shame at all?
Seller_0xdtD36hDLHBC
@Jameson_Amazon
I have been asking this question since July. No one has answered.
Sellers who have a handling time gap of 2 or more days will be forced to use AHT. However, Promised Handling time is being calculated incorrectly. I've had a case open for nearly two months with no resolution.
How is promised handling time calculated?
and Will the (current) incorrect calculations ever be corrected.
Case ID: 15776313681 (opened August 5)
Seller_Zw8LsZUQSH440
Overall, I think that the new OTDR policies are great. They have solved the long-standing problem of customers not placing orders because they thought it would take too long for the order to arrive. Unfortunately, they have resulted in a significant increase in shipping costs. This increase could be addressed by making a few changes to the delivery estimates and buying shipping options.
- Delivery estimates: Often, UPS can deliver within two days to our region and even to adjacent regions. However, since UPS uses dynamic pricing, costs can vary by more than 2X even to the same address. Amazon could keep track of the average UPS rates per region over, say, 90 days. If a delivery estimate varies by more than 10%, then UPS should not be used to estimate delivery dates and should not appear as an option when buying shipping.
- PO Boxes and UPS: PO Boxes and UPS don’t go together because UPS doesn’t deliver to PO Boxes. We often get two-day delivery estimates for PO Boxes, which are impossible to meet without using an expensive Express Mail option. Additionally, UPS has sometimes been the only OTDR-protected option for PO Box addresses, which doesn’t make sense.
- Carrier adjustments: While we haven’t been significantly affected so far, it’s clear that carriers sometimes don’t calibrate their measuring tools properly or make mistakes, like measuring stacked boxes instead of single packages. Amazon’s position that such issues are between the seller and the carriers is flawed, especially when there is no way to dispute these charges. Label purchases from Amazon should be treated like any other customer order, with Amazon being responsible for monitoring the accuracy of adjustments.
- OTDR metrics and risks: Given the risks associated with OTDR metrics, there are some changes and clarifications that are necessary. First, our local post office doesn’t have the manpower to scan all packages individually, so we rely on scan sheets. Packages then go to the regional sorting facility where, in general, they are scanned the same day, but not always. Sometimes, they aren’t scanned until the next day. We need assurance that scan sheets are valid proof of shipping. Second, for OTDR metrics, "Available for pickup" should be considered "Delivered." We have no control over how long it takes for customers to pick up packages from the carrier’s location. Third, we need confirmation that early shipping or delivery won’t negatively affect our metrics. As of now, we are averaging 2.4 days ahead of promised delivery dates, and there has been no impact on our metrics, but it would be nice to have the official position clarified.
In closing, I believe we are close to having an excellent system, but some changes and clarifications are still needed.
Seller_mVDGl5FuduOjS
I do not feel like its genuine and honest that an important detail you dont have highlighted is the standard shipping settings. I have been using all 3 and since you amazon didnt mention this in original post we didnt know about it until i contacted support. We are custom seller and have been using free economy shipping.
Seller_mVDGl5FuduOjS
I do not feel like its genuine and honest that an important detail you dont have highlighted is the standard shipping settings. I have been using all 3 and since you amazon didnt mention this in original post we didnt know about it until i contacted support. We are custom seller and have been using free economy shipping.
Seller_YvPJcV8cv0Kiu
Amazon Buy Shipping, to purchase shipping labels marked as "OTDR Protected"
- So you are saying USPS direct is not protected? (Isn't that nepatism?)
- About 40% of Amazon's orders are being shipped via USPS.
- So, if its good enough to cover (thru your shipping) - does that mean "we the people" are not good enough to be protected from mail fraud, by going direct thru USPS?
- In 2023 Amazon is using the same Courier for last mile, and rural areas - the name of that courier is USPS, the same as we use - but I find it hard to believe the Postal Service is aware their tracking numbers are not good enough for a seller going direct vs using (Amazon Buy Shipping) - Am sure there is some contracted agreement and Amazon is getting better pricing that someone off the street, or a high volume seller - yet the same tracking number is not going to protect sellers? (how is that not a Non compete?) - Any explaination would be fantastic, because (Unlike UPS or Fedex) making fake tracking numbers on USPS is a Federal Offense, there is no way a seller is going to be doing that.
Seller_YvPJcV8cv0Kiu
Amazon Buy Shipping, to purchase shipping labels marked as "OTDR Protected"
- So you are saying USPS direct is not protected? (Isn't that nepatism?)
- About 40% of Amazon's orders are being shipped via USPS.
- So, if its good enough to cover (thru your shipping) - does that mean "we the people" are not good enough to be protected from mail fraud, by going direct thru USPS?
- In 2023 Amazon is using the same Courier for last mile, and rural areas - the name of that courier is USPS, the same as we use - but I find it hard to believe the Postal Service is aware their tracking numbers are not good enough for a seller going direct vs using (Amazon Buy Shipping) - Am sure there is some contracted agreement and Amazon is getting better pricing that someone off the street, or a high volume seller - yet the same tracking number is not going to protect sellers? (how is that not a Non compete?) - Any explaination would be fantastic, because (Unlike UPS or Fedex) making fake tracking numbers on USPS is a Federal Offense, there is no way a seller is going to be doing that.
Seller_Ggt6s7zXEwLbA
1. Why is OTDR based on items shipped but all the other performance tools are based on orders shipped?
2. Why do 100% of a seller's products need to use SSA, AHT and ABS to enable any of seller's products to get OTDR protection?
For example, as a Handmade seller there are some products my studio outsources for production, such as when I can't afford a $1,000,000 machine to make a small number of products, or I don't have space for certain machinery, or a company specializing in making a certain product can do it better than I can. Why does using an outside provider, which means I cannot buy shipping from Amazon, prevent me from having OTDR protection for any product at all?
3. Since OTDR is only accurate if based on a delivery time that is accurate, what is Amazon doing to adjust projected delivery times to ensure the underlying time for OTDR is accurate?
For example, Congress is currently investigating the post office because only 36% of orders in Northern Florida/Georgia are being delivered on time. If postal deliveries to those areas take an average of 7 days instead of 5, shouldn't the OTDR be based on 7 days instead of 5 for those orders?
4. Why is Amazon leveraging its dominance, for which it is already being sued as an illegal monopoly, to force more purchases from Amazon and decrease competition for its Merch on Demand program? Amazon's Merch on Demand uses outside providers to make and ship products, but by forcing sellers to use SSA, AHT and ABS sellers risk termination if they also use outside providers to make and ship competitive products. The result is less competition for Amazon's Merch on Demand giving Amazon more sales.
For example, Amazon uses outside providers to make and directly ship tshirts to consumers. If I use the exact same outside providers (I believe I do use some of the same providers Amazon uses) to make and ship my tshirts then since I am not buying shipping labels from Amazon I do not get OTDR protection and am at risk of termination. This unfairly preferences Amazon's Merch on Demand program and reduces competition. Please explain why Amazon is doing this.
Amazon repeatedly states: "Effective September 25, 2024, to help reduce late deliveries and improve delivery speeds, we’re changing our OTDR policy."
5. Please explain how the new policy reduces late deliveries.
Specifically, by reducing the number of days consumers are told to expect a delivery, from 8 to 5, Amazon is actually increasing the number of late deliveries. Please explain the math.
6. Please explain how the new policy improves delivery speeds.
Delivery is performed by outside companies, usually the US Post Office. How does Amazon changing its policy increase the delivery speed of an outside company?
Further, since there is no penalty for late delivery if a sellers uses SSH, AHT and ABS, isn't the only real effect of the policy to force more purchases of postage from Amazon? That is, if seller X uses SSH, AHT and ABS and the post office takes 10 days to deliver an order nothing happens. But if seller Y buys their own shipping and the post office takes 10 days to delver an order the seller is at risk of termination. That is, using SSH, AHT and ABS do not, in fact, appear to improve delivery speeds but only appears to force sellers to buy all their postage from Amazon.
7. Why are delivery by promise extensions no longer considered?
As I understand it, if a standard delivery is expected to take 5 days, but a hurricane puts Tallahassee underwater for a week and local delivery services are closed, then promise extensions would kick in so customers know it will take more time to deliver their orders. Why are sellers at risk of termination because of a hurricane? Why are sellers at risk because a windstorm knocks out power to a post office and deliveries are delayed a day? Why are sellers at risk because some contractor cuts too deep and knocks out electrical power in an area and causes mail to be delayed? Why are sellers at risk because a squirrel knocks a tree branch into an electrical unit which knocks out power causing all mail delivery from that post office (which could be 100% of a seller's orders) to be delayed?
Seller_Ggt6s7zXEwLbA
1. Why is OTDR based on items shipped but all the other performance tools are based on orders shipped?
2. Why do 100% of a seller's products need to use SSA, AHT and ABS to enable any of seller's products to get OTDR protection?
For example, as a Handmade seller there are some products my studio outsources for production, such as when I can't afford a $1,000,000 machine to make a small number of products, or I don't have space for certain machinery, or a company specializing in making a certain product can do it better than I can. Why does using an outside provider, which means I cannot buy shipping from Amazon, prevent me from having OTDR protection for any product at all?
3. Since OTDR is only accurate if based on a delivery time that is accurate, what is Amazon doing to adjust projected delivery times to ensure the underlying time for OTDR is accurate?
For example, Congress is currently investigating the post office because only 36% of orders in Northern Florida/Georgia are being delivered on time. If postal deliveries to those areas take an average of 7 days instead of 5, shouldn't the OTDR be based on 7 days instead of 5 for those orders?
4. Why is Amazon leveraging its dominance, for which it is already being sued as an illegal monopoly, to force more purchases from Amazon and decrease competition for its Merch on Demand program? Amazon's Merch on Demand uses outside providers to make and ship products, but by forcing sellers to use SSA, AHT and ABS sellers risk termination if they also use outside providers to make and ship competitive products. The result is less competition for Amazon's Merch on Demand giving Amazon more sales.
For example, Amazon uses outside providers to make and directly ship tshirts to consumers. If I use the exact same outside providers (I believe I do use some of the same providers Amazon uses) to make and ship my tshirts then since I am not buying shipping labels from Amazon I do not get OTDR protection and am at risk of termination. This unfairly preferences Amazon's Merch on Demand program and reduces competition. Please explain why Amazon is doing this.
Amazon repeatedly states: "Effective September 25, 2024, to help reduce late deliveries and improve delivery speeds, we’re changing our OTDR policy."
5. Please explain how the new policy reduces late deliveries.
Specifically, by reducing the number of days consumers are told to expect a delivery, from 8 to 5, Amazon is actually increasing the number of late deliveries. Please explain the math.
6. Please explain how the new policy improves delivery speeds.
Delivery is performed by outside companies, usually the US Post Office. How does Amazon changing its policy increase the delivery speed of an outside company?
Further, since there is no penalty for late delivery if a sellers uses SSH, AHT and ABS, isn't the only real effect of the policy to force more purchases of postage from Amazon? That is, if seller X uses SSH, AHT and ABS and the post office takes 10 days to deliver an order nothing happens. But if seller Y buys their own shipping and the post office takes 10 days to delver an order the seller is at risk of termination. That is, using SSH, AHT and ABS do not, in fact, appear to improve delivery speeds but only appears to force sellers to buy all their postage from Amazon.
7. Why are delivery by promise extensions no longer considered?
As I understand it, if a standard delivery is expected to take 5 days, but a hurricane puts Tallahassee underwater for a week and local delivery services are closed, then promise extensions would kick in so customers know it will take more time to deliver their orders. Why are sellers at risk of termination because of a hurricane? Why are sellers at risk because a windstorm knocks out power to a post office and deliveries are delayed a day? Why are sellers at risk because some contractor cuts too deep and knocks out electrical power in an area and causes mail to be delayed? Why are sellers at risk because a squirrel knocks a tree branch into an electrical unit which knocks out power causing all mail delivery from that post office (which could be 100% of a seller's orders) to be delayed?
Seller_TF5qj8nvLsVAS
Hi @Jameson_AmazonI've been trying to get the seller override exemption removed off my automated handling time so I can get OTDR protection since i did not know this when I asked for it. Can you help anyway to get it removed. I've been trying to get help for a month now. I am quite scared now as my OTDR metrics is getting lower everyday.
Seller_TF5qj8nvLsVAS
Hi @Jameson_AmazonI've been trying to get the seller override exemption removed off my automated handling time so I can get OTDR protection since i did not know this when I asked for it. Can you help anyway to get it removed. I've been trying to get help for a month now. I am quite scared now as my OTDR metrics is getting lower everyday.
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I have noticed on the report that:
Orders that contain multiple ASINs/SKUs are duplicated - essentially making achieving 90%+ harder if you have 2+ different SKUs in one order on multiple orders. It is still just one order being delivered, why would it duplicate like this?
Then the OTDR protected orders are still showing up on the report, so why is the option to even buy shipping on Amazon, and it still counts against us?
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I have noticed on the report that:
Orders that contain multiple ASINs/SKUs are duplicated - essentially making achieving 90%+ harder if you have 2+ different SKUs in one order on multiple orders. It is still just one order being delivered, why would it duplicate like this?
Then the OTDR protected orders are still showing up on the report, so why is the option to even buy shipping on Amazon, and it still counts against us?
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I would hope with such an aggressive policy update to FBM sellers, Amazon would be more open to providing light & fit tracking options for orders that are less than 16 oz. Like eBay and Etsy provide on their platforms.
Seller_7STxzA93KoQVs
I would hope with such an aggressive policy update to FBM sellers, Amazon would be more open to providing light & fit tracking options for orders that are less than 16 oz. Like eBay and Etsy provide on their platforms.
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Absent answers to questions you're straight-up ignoring and will continue to ignore, we have to presume that this is designed simply to push us to FBA and (more expensive) Amazon shipping, without explicitly requiring that, because that would be an obvious anti-trust violation. So, a lot of our questions are moot, because you simply cannot and will not explain e.g. how relying on automation settings (which we've repeatedly demonstrated are broken) will move our shipments any faster, or how lowering thresholds will improve the percentage of shipments meeting those thresholds, or why HANDLING time automation has jack to do with TRANSIT times.
So, we have to head into the weeds and ask the less important questions, like ... Mods say:
"If there is a major disruption event that impacts all sellers shipping to a specific region, we will not count deliveries that are late as a result in your OTDR. Whether a disruption is considered to be major is a discretionary decision made by Amazon."
I see this nowhere in the TOS or documentation. Is Amazon now making declarations in the fora legally binding, and if not, what are these promises worth?
Based on the huge numbers of sellers we've seen impacted by Amazon not following their concrete policies, how much reassurance should we take when Amazon makes arbitrary decisions, like whether or not an event is an event?
How about shipments FROM an impacted region, or that have to route around it? How about if a shipping hub is in that region?
WHY ARE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTS OF GOD?
Why remove promise extensions -- which explicitly deal with these events -- from the metric? Why are we now effectively required to deliver faster than the customer expects us to (for promise extension events)?
Why is Amazon not held to the same standard as sellers? This doesn't apply to FBA or Amazon-as-seller. How is that not anti-trust-y? Why can Amazon ship my Prime purchases later/slower than I ship my 3PS sales and have no repercussions? Why are my metrics publicly displayed and/or can result in account closure and seizure of goods and funds, but 1PS has no metrics at all? Can Amazon in fact demonstrate that FBA ships faster than FBM on average? Faster than my account? If there's no evidence of that, why would shifting to FBA offer me protections for the very thing it's failing at?
If transit time is so important, why are you continuing to onboard sellers shipping from China at an alarming rate?
Why is the identical label bought directly from a shipper not offered the same protections as when Amazon takes a vig for selling the same label? How is that different than extortion?
Why do you appear to despise FBA so much? What ever happened to "dance with those that brung ya' "? Have you no shame at all?
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Absent answers to questions you're straight-up ignoring and will continue to ignore, we have to presume that this is designed simply to push us to FBA and (more expensive) Amazon shipping, without explicitly requiring that, because that would be an obvious anti-trust violation. So, a lot of our questions are moot, because you simply cannot and will not explain e.g. how relying on automation settings (which we've repeatedly demonstrated are broken) will move our shipments any faster, or how lowering thresholds will improve the percentage of shipments meeting those thresholds, or why HANDLING time automation has jack to do with TRANSIT times.
So, we have to head into the weeds and ask the less important questions, like ... Mods say:
"If there is a major disruption event that impacts all sellers shipping to a specific region, we will not count deliveries that are late as a result in your OTDR. Whether a disruption is considered to be major is a discretionary decision made by Amazon."
I see this nowhere in the TOS or documentation. Is Amazon now making declarations in the fora legally binding, and if not, what are these promises worth?
Based on the huge numbers of sellers we've seen impacted by Amazon not following their concrete policies, how much reassurance should we take when Amazon makes arbitrary decisions, like whether or not an event is an event?
How about shipments FROM an impacted region, or that have to route around it? How about if a shipping hub is in that region?
WHY ARE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTS OF GOD?
Why remove promise extensions -- which explicitly deal with these events -- from the metric? Why are we now effectively required to deliver faster than the customer expects us to (for promise extension events)?
Why is Amazon not held to the same standard as sellers? This doesn't apply to FBA or Amazon-as-seller. How is that not anti-trust-y? Why can Amazon ship my Prime purchases later/slower than I ship my 3PS sales and have no repercussions? Why are my metrics publicly displayed and/or can result in account closure and seizure of goods and funds, but 1PS has no metrics at all? Can Amazon in fact demonstrate that FBA ships faster than FBM on average? Faster than my account? If there's no evidence of that, why would shifting to FBA offer me protections for the very thing it's failing at?
If transit time is so important, why are you continuing to onboard sellers shipping from China at an alarming rate?
Why is the identical label bought directly from a shipper not offered the same protections as when Amazon takes a vig for selling the same label? How is that different than extortion?
Why do you appear to despise FBA so much? What ever happened to "dance with those that brung ya' "? Have you no shame at all?
Seller_0xdtD36hDLHBC
@Jameson_Amazon
I have been asking this question since July. No one has answered.
Sellers who have a handling time gap of 2 or more days will be forced to use AHT. However, Promised Handling time is being calculated incorrectly. I've had a case open for nearly two months with no resolution.
How is promised handling time calculated?
and Will the (current) incorrect calculations ever be corrected.
Case ID: 15776313681 (opened August 5)
Seller_0xdtD36hDLHBC
@Jameson_Amazon
I have been asking this question since July. No one has answered.
Sellers who have a handling time gap of 2 or more days will be forced to use AHT. However, Promised Handling time is being calculated incorrectly. I've had a case open for nearly two months with no resolution.
How is promised handling time calculated?
and Will the (current) incorrect calculations ever be corrected.
Case ID: 15776313681 (opened August 5)
Seller_Zw8LsZUQSH440
Overall, I think that the new OTDR policies are great. They have solved the long-standing problem of customers not placing orders because they thought it would take too long for the order to arrive. Unfortunately, they have resulted in a significant increase in shipping costs. This increase could be addressed by making a few changes to the delivery estimates and buying shipping options.
- Delivery estimates: Often, UPS can deliver within two days to our region and even to adjacent regions. However, since UPS uses dynamic pricing, costs can vary by more than 2X even to the same address. Amazon could keep track of the average UPS rates per region over, say, 90 days. If a delivery estimate varies by more than 10%, then UPS should not be used to estimate delivery dates and should not appear as an option when buying shipping.
- PO Boxes and UPS: PO Boxes and UPS don’t go together because UPS doesn’t deliver to PO Boxes. We often get two-day delivery estimates for PO Boxes, which are impossible to meet without using an expensive Express Mail option. Additionally, UPS has sometimes been the only OTDR-protected option for PO Box addresses, which doesn’t make sense.
- Carrier adjustments: While we haven’t been significantly affected so far, it’s clear that carriers sometimes don’t calibrate their measuring tools properly or make mistakes, like measuring stacked boxes instead of single packages. Amazon’s position that such issues are between the seller and the carriers is flawed, especially when there is no way to dispute these charges. Label purchases from Amazon should be treated like any other customer order, with Amazon being responsible for monitoring the accuracy of adjustments.
- OTDR metrics and risks: Given the risks associated with OTDR metrics, there are some changes and clarifications that are necessary. First, our local post office doesn’t have the manpower to scan all packages individually, so we rely on scan sheets. Packages then go to the regional sorting facility where, in general, they are scanned the same day, but not always. Sometimes, they aren’t scanned until the next day. We need assurance that scan sheets are valid proof of shipping. Second, for OTDR metrics, "Available for pickup" should be considered "Delivered." We have no control over how long it takes for customers to pick up packages from the carrier’s location. Third, we need confirmation that early shipping or delivery won’t negatively affect our metrics. As of now, we are averaging 2.4 days ahead of promised delivery dates, and there has been no impact on our metrics, but it would be nice to have the official position clarified.
In closing, I believe we are close to having an excellent system, but some changes and clarifications are still needed.
Seller_Zw8LsZUQSH440
Overall, I think that the new OTDR policies are great. They have solved the long-standing problem of customers not placing orders because they thought it would take too long for the order to arrive. Unfortunately, they have resulted in a significant increase in shipping costs. This increase could be addressed by making a few changes to the delivery estimates and buying shipping options.
- Delivery estimates: Often, UPS can deliver within two days to our region and even to adjacent regions. However, since UPS uses dynamic pricing, costs can vary by more than 2X even to the same address. Amazon could keep track of the average UPS rates per region over, say, 90 days. If a delivery estimate varies by more than 10%, then UPS should not be used to estimate delivery dates and should not appear as an option when buying shipping.
- PO Boxes and UPS: PO Boxes and UPS don’t go together because UPS doesn’t deliver to PO Boxes. We often get two-day delivery estimates for PO Boxes, which are impossible to meet without using an expensive Express Mail option. Additionally, UPS has sometimes been the only OTDR-protected option for PO Box addresses, which doesn’t make sense.
- Carrier adjustments: While we haven’t been significantly affected so far, it’s clear that carriers sometimes don’t calibrate their measuring tools properly or make mistakes, like measuring stacked boxes instead of single packages. Amazon’s position that such issues are between the seller and the carriers is flawed, especially when there is no way to dispute these charges. Label purchases from Amazon should be treated like any other customer order, with Amazon being responsible for monitoring the accuracy of adjustments.
- OTDR metrics and risks: Given the risks associated with OTDR metrics, there are some changes and clarifications that are necessary. First, our local post office doesn’t have the manpower to scan all packages individually, so we rely on scan sheets. Packages then go to the regional sorting facility where, in general, they are scanned the same day, but not always. Sometimes, they aren’t scanned until the next day. We need assurance that scan sheets are valid proof of shipping. Second, for OTDR metrics, "Available for pickup" should be considered "Delivered." We have no control over how long it takes for customers to pick up packages from the carrier’s location. Third, we need confirmation that early shipping or delivery won’t negatively affect our metrics. As of now, we are averaging 2.4 days ahead of promised delivery dates, and there has been no impact on our metrics, but it would be nice to have the official position clarified.
In closing, I believe we are close to having an excellent system, but some changes and clarifications are still needed.
