Ongoing issue with an AtoZ Claim/Chargeback
We had a customer who raised an AtoZ Claim as they had claimed they had not received their item. Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time, signed for etc. It should have been covered by the AtoZ claim guarantee but the claim was closed by Amazon citing "buyer did not respond to request for information". The customer then raised a chargeback which was successfully defended then somehow they raised a second one and Amazon did a poor job of defending it (they did not ask us for further evidence) and the order was refunded. We raised several cases and each time it was referred to the chargeback team who just hid behind the fact that it wasnt their fault and it was the banks decision etc and there was nothing they could do. I raised another case 15888333761 and asked the question that the AtoZ team should be the team to refund this order as it should have been covered there but something went wrong in that process meaning they closed it.
It was documented in this forum post but the post has now been locked.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/173cd45a-bcac-46e0-896a-9c63172c18cb?
@Joey_Amazon's last comment on there said that it was his understanding that the AtoZ team would get back to me about my claim through the case number above. It's been over a month now and i havent heard anything and the case just says "transferred".
Its a big dollar order and we did everything we were supposed to do from Amazons perspective, we bought the label through Amazon Buy Shipping and shipped on time and delivered on time. Any refund should be funded by Amazon, I cant see where anyone could disagree with that? @Joey_Amazon can you help?
Ongoing issue with an AtoZ Claim/Chargeback
We had a customer who raised an AtoZ Claim as they had claimed they had not received their item. Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time, signed for etc. It should have been covered by the AtoZ claim guarantee but the claim was closed by Amazon citing "buyer did not respond to request for information". The customer then raised a chargeback which was successfully defended then somehow they raised a second one and Amazon did a poor job of defending it (they did not ask us for further evidence) and the order was refunded. We raised several cases and each time it was referred to the chargeback team who just hid behind the fact that it wasnt their fault and it was the banks decision etc and there was nothing they could do. I raised another case 15888333761 and asked the question that the AtoZ team should be the team to refund this order as it should have been covered there but something went wrong in that process meaning they closed it.
It was documented in this forum post but the post has now been locked.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/173cd45a-bcac-46e0-896a-9c63172c18cb?
@Joey_Amazon's last comment on there said that it was his understanding that the AtoZ team would get back to me about my claim through the case number above. It's been over a month now and i havent heard anything and the case just says "transferred".
Its a big dollar order and we did everything we were supposed to do from Amazons perspective, we bought the label through Amazon Buy Shipping and shipped on time and delivered on time. Any refund should be funded by Amazon, I cant see where anyone could disagree with that? @Joey_Amazon can you help?
16 replies
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Unfortunately, customers who file a second chargeback with their bank after being denied at first always seem to win that second one. Why that is I don't know, but I don't recall any seller ever posting about winning a second filing.
The chargeback decision has nothing to do with Amazon deciding anything, as I'm sure you know. It's 100 percent the bank's decision. And Amazon explicitly states in Seller Help and the ASBSA that they are only responsible for any payment-related fraud chargebacks.
Buy Shipping doesn't cover chargebacks to my knowledge. I'm sorry but you're not going to win this one, and yes it's a cRappy policy. Sorry this happened to you.
Seller_qD0b68Wo456ec
A seller should never see a chargeback.
Amazon makes a point of always telling sellers the buyer is Amazons customer.
Amazon handles the financial part of the sale. Sellers do not see credit card info or address match info. You must ship to supplied address even if its a parking lot in a deserted part of town.
Wouldnt the chargeback be on Amazon. They cover inr with the A-Z guarantee and they cover financial fraud.
They need to tell the bank to have their customer file an A-Z claim.
Thank you
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Here, again, is Amazon completely ignoring the legal agreement with which they would merrily shutter your account and seize your funds. It's not a contract if it only applies to one party.
The 2nd chargeback thing really steams me. It comes with ZERO notification to the sellers. You can even pull up the chargeback screen is SS and it will appear that no action is needed or occurring.
Obviously, we should either be given access to participate in refuting the chargeback (since Amazon doesn't appear to dispute 2nd chargebacks at all, or simply lobs the same response expecting a different outcome), or not be held responsible. You can't take away our agency and leave us with responsibility (and not come off like sociopathic aholes).
Then there is the mod/support thing. How many times have we been told "this has been passed to internal teams" or "we'll get back to you" without response? I particularly despise when cases time-out before a response comes, then you get to start from scratch with a new case, either because support is too lazy/underincentivized/overworked/whatever to refer to the prior case, or because crucial info has simply been dropped from the case (does AWS not have enough storage to store some text??).
I think I'm more angry for you than you are for yourself. I applaud your calm in the face of what is obvious theft. Good luck.
Seller_RnoJYdlqCE5Tw
I completely agree with you about the second chargeback. The fact that you hear after the fact that it was granted and they submitted evidence on our behalf really annoyed me. It showed as a second record on the chargeback screen for me but initially showed that they had defended it again, then changed to say that we were responsible. I don't know how its even possible to not be able to defend a case where there is evidence that the item was delivered to the right place and signed for by the customer.
As for support, Amazon Seller Support is so hard to navigate and get any meaningful help from anyone on any topic. FBA issues for example are a complete nightmare. However, i have found the moderators on this forum really helpful. A few months ago they were able to have an AtoZ case for $4k overturned for us after it was denied. So i only have good things to say about them really. But general support is hard work.
Here's something though that will make you laugh. I'm not sure if you have come across this before, it was the first time i saw it. When i filed the case about appealing the chargeback, an AI response instantly came up on the screen just before i submitted the case (so not the response you get a few hours later, this was before i pressed submit). I'm guessing its a new system that they are testing as it only appears for certain cases. It looks like a chat gpt kind of thing. Well, it gets it! But unfortunately, even after forwarding it to them the people with the real power didnt want to know still. I'm getting to the point where im ready to submit to our AI overlords, they seem to know what they are doing ;-)
Seller_zc50DVO3FE5fz
As others have said, the 2nd chargeback always wins seems to, so far, be 100% true. We've never won a second chargeback, even with indisputable evidence. And there have been hundreds of posts about the same thing on the forums. It seems Amazon never really represents a 2nd chargeback - almost as if they just ignore it and let it go. It's one of those things that maybe eventually someone will take it on through mediation and force Amazon to reveal how they represent the 2nd chargebacks. Until that happens, it'll be shrouded in secrecy why 2nd chargebacks always win against Amazon.
Seller_LozVbcNSprfMf
Hi,
It also happened to me once. The chargeback was granted. Amazon did not help. The same Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time. Buyer used the item for over 30 days.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
That was exactly my thought.
Seller_WtOwWhtSrFjva
Must have been the same customer I had. Item showed delivered but they filed a charge back. Twice. I won each time.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Yours is the first post I recall seeing where the seller won a second chargeback. Congrats!!
Ongoing issue with an AtoZ Claim/Chargeback
We had a customer who raised an AtoZ Claim as they had claimed they had not received their item. Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time, signed for etc. It should have been covered by the AtoZ claim guarantee but the claim was closed by Amazon citing "buyer did not respond to request for information". The customer then raised a chargeback which was successfully defended then somehow they raised a second one and Amazon did a poor job of defending it (they did not ask us for further evidence) and the order was refunded. We raised several cases and each time it was referred to the chargeback team who just hid behind the fact that it wasnt their fault and it was the banks decision etc and there was nothing they could do. I raised another case 15888333761 and asked the question that the AtoZ team should be the team to refund this order as it should have been covered there but something went wrong in that process meaning they closed it.
It was documented in this forum post but the post has now been locked.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/173cd45a-bcac-46e0-896a-9c63172c18cb?
@Joey_Amazon's last comment on there said that it was his understanding that the AtoZ team would get back to me about my claim through the case number above. It's been over a month now and i havent heard anything and the case just says "transferred".
Its a big dollar order and we did everything we were supposed to do from Amazons perspective, we bought the label through Amazon Buy Shipping and shipped on time and delivered on time. Any refund should be funded by Amazon, I cant see where anyone could disagree with that? @Joey_Amazon can you help?
Ongoing issue with an AtoZ Claim/Chargeback
We had a customer who raised an AtoZ Claim as they had claimed they had not received their item. Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time, signed for etc. It should have been covered by the AtoZ claim guarantee but the claim was closed by Amazon citing "buyer did not respond to request for information". The customer then raised a chargeback which was successfully defended then somehow they raised a second one and Amazon did a poor job of defending it (they did not ask us for further evidence) and the order was refunded. We raised several cases and each time it was referred to the chargeback team who just hid behind the fact that it wasnt their fault and it was the banks decision etc and there was nothing they could do. I raised another case 15888333761 and asked the question that the AtoZ team should be the team to refund this order as it should have been covered there but something went wrong in that process meaning they closed it.
It was documented in this forum post but the post has now been locked.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/173cd45a-bcac-46e0-896a-9c63172c18cb?
@Joey_Amazon's last comment on there said that it was his understanding that the AtoZ team would get back to me about my claim through the case number above. It's been over a month now and i havent heard anything and the case just says "transferred".
Its a big dollar order and we did everything we were supposed to do from Amazons perspective, we bought the label through Amazon Buy Shipping and shipped on time and delivered on time. Any refund should be funded by Amazon, I cant see where anyone could disagree with that? @Joey_Amazon can you help?
Ongoing issue with an AtoZ Claim/Chargeback
We had a customer who raised an AtoZ Claim as they had claimed they had not received their item. Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time, signed for etc. It should have been covered by the AtoZ claim guarantee but the claim was closed by Amazon citing "buyer did not respond to request for information". The customer then raised a chargeback which was successfully defended then somehow they raised a second one and Amazon did a poor job of defending it (they did not ask us for further evidence) and the order was refunded. We raised several cases and each time it was referred to the chargeback team who just hid behind the fact that it wasnt their fault and it was the banks decision etc and there was nothing they could do. I raised another case 15888333761 and asked the question that the AtoZ team should be the team to refund this order as it should have been covered there but something went wrong in that process meaning they closed it.
It was documented in this forum post but the post has now been locked.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/173cd45a-bcac-46e0-896a-9c63172c18cb?
@Joey_Amazon's last comment on there said that it was his understanding that the AtoZ team would get back to me about my claim through the case number above. It's been over a month now and i havent heard anything and the case just says "transferred".
Its a big dollar order and we did everything we were supposed to do from Amazons perspective, we bought the label through Amazon Buy Shipping and shipped on time and delivered on time. Any refund should be funded by Amazon, I cant see where anyone could disagree with that? @Joey_Amazon can you help?
16 replies
16 replies
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Unfortunately, customers who file a second chargeback with their bank after being denied at first always seem to win that second one. Why that is I don't know, but I don't recall any seller ever posting about winning a second filing.
The chargeback decision has nothing to do with Amazon deciding anything, as I'm sure you know. It's 100 percent the bank's decision. And Amazon explicitly states in Seller Help and the ASBSA that they are only responsible for any payment-related fraud chargebacks.
Buy Shipping doesn't cover chargebacks to my knowledge. I'm sorry but you're not going to win this one, and yes it's a cRappy policy. Sorry this happened to you.
Seller_qD0b68Wo456ec
A seller should never see a chargeback.
Amazon makes a point of always telling sellers the buyer is Amazons customer.
Amazon handles the financial part of the sale. Sellers do not see credit card info or address match info. You must ship to supplied address even if its a parking lot in a deserted part of town.
Wouldnt the chargeback be on Amazon. They cover inr with the A-Z guarantee and they cover financial fraud.
They need to tell the bank to have their customer file an A-Z claim.
Thank you
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Here, again, is Amazon completely ignoring the legal agreement with which they would merrily shutter your account and seize your funds. It's not a contract if it only applies to one party.
The 2nd chargeback thing really steams me. It comes with ZERO notification to the sellers. You can even pull up the chargeback screen is SS and it will appear that no action is needed or occurring.
Obviously, we should either be given access to participate in refuting the chargeback (since Amazon doesn't appear to dispute 2nd chargebacks at all, or simply lobs the same response expecting a different outcome), or not be held responsible. You can't take away our agency and leave us with responsibility (and not come off like sociopathic aholes).
Then there is the mod/support thing. How many times have we been told "this has been passed to internal teams" or "we'll get back to you" without response? I particularly despise when cases time-out before a response comes, then you get to start from scratch with a new case, either because support is too lazy/underincentivized/overworked/whatever to refer to the prior case, or because crucial info has simply been dropped from the case (does AWS not have enough storage to store some text??).
I think I'm more angry for you than you are for yourself. I applaud your calm in the face of what is obvious theft. Good luck.
Seller_RnoJYdlqCE5Tw
I completely agree with you about the second chargeback. The fact that you hear after the fact that it was granted and they submitted evidence on our behalf really annoyed me. It showed as a second record on the chargeback screen for me but initially showed that they had defended it again, then changed to say that we were responsible. I don't know how its even possible to not be able to defend a case where there is evidence that the item was delivered to the right place and signed for by the customer.
As for support, Amazon Seller Support is so hard to navigate and get any meaningful help from anyone on any topic. FBA issues for example are a complete nightmare. However, i have found the moderators on this forum really helpful. A few months ago they were able to have an AtoZ case for $4k overturned for us after it was denied. So i only have good things to say about them really. But general support is hard work.
Here's something though that will make you laugh. I'm not sure if you have come across this before, it was the first time i saw it. When i filed the case about appealing the chargeback, an AI response instantly came up on the screen just before i submitted the case (so not the response you get a few hours later, this was before i pressed submit). I'm guessing its a new system that they are testing as it only appears for certain cases. It looks like a chat gpt kind of thing. Well, it gets it! But unfortunately, even after forwarding it to them the people with the real power didnt want to know still. I'm getting to the point where im ready to submit to our AI overlords, they seem to know what they are doing ;-)
Seller_zc50DVO3FE5fz
As others have said, the 2nd chargeback always wins seems to, so far, be 100% true. We've never won a second chargeback, even with indisputable evidence. And there have been hundreds of posts about the same thing on the forums. It seems Amazon never really represents a 2nd chargeback - almost as if they just ignore it and let it go. It's one of those things that maybe eventually someone will take it on through mediation and force Amazon to reveal how they represent the 2nd chargebacks. Until that happens, it'll be shrouded in secrecy why 2nd chargebacks always win against Amazon.
Seller_LozVbcNSprfMf
Hi,
It also happened to me once. The chargeback was granted. Amazon did not help. The same Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time. Buyer used the item for over 30 days.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
That was exactly my thought.
Seller_WtOwWhtSrFjva
Must have been the same customer I had. Item showed delivered but they filed a charge back. Twice. I won each time.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Yours is the first post I recall seeing where the seller won a second chargeback. Congrats!!
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Unfortunately, customers who file a second chargeback with their bank after being denied at first always seem to win that second one. Why that is I don't know, but I don't recall any seller ever posting about winning a second filing.
The chargeback decision has nothing to do with Amazon deciding anything, as I'm sure you know. It's 100 percent the bank's decision. And Amazon explicitly states in Seller Help and the ASBSA that they are only responsible for any payment-related fraud chargebacks.
Buy Shipping doesn't cover chargebacks to my knowledge. I'm sorry but you're not going to win this one, and yes it's a cRappy policy. Sorry this happened to you.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Unfortunately, customers who file a second chargeback with their bank after being denied at first always seem to win that second one. Why that is I don't know, but I don't recall any seller ever posting about winning a second filing.
The chargeback decision has nothing to do with Amazon deciding anything, as I'm sure you know. It's 100 percent the bank's decision. And Amazon explicitly states in Seller Help and the ASBSA that they are only responsible for any payment-related fraud chargebacks.
Buy Shipping doesn't cover chargebacks to my knowledge. I'm sorry but you're not going to win this one, and yes it's a cRappy policy. Sorry this happened to you.
Seller_qD0b68Wo456ec
A seller should never see a chargeback.
Amazon makes a point of always telling sellers the buyer is Amazons customer.
Amazon handles the financial part of the sale. Sellers do not see credit card info or address match info. You must ship to supplied address even if its a parking lot in a deserted part of town.
Wouldnt the chargeback be on Amazon. They cover inr with the A-Z guarantee and they cover financial fraud.
They need to tell the bank to have their customer file an A-Z claim.
Thank you
Seller_qD0b68Wo456ec
A seller should never see a chargeback.
Amazon makes a point of always telling sellers the buyer is Amazons customer.
Amazon handles the financial part of the sale. Sellers do not see credit card info or address match info. You must ship to supplied address even if its a parking lot in a deserted part of town.
Wouldnt the chargeback be on Amazon. They cover inr with the A-Z guarantee and they cover financial fraud.
They need to tell the bank to have their customer file an A-Z claim.
Thank you
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Here, again, is Amazon completely ignoring the legal agreement with which they would merrily shutter your account and seize your funds. It's not a contract if it only applies to one party.
The 2nd chargeback thing really steams me. It comes with ZERO notification to the sellers. You can even pull up the chargeback screen is SS and it will appear that no action is needed or occurring.
Obviously, we should either be given access to participate in refuting the chargeback (since Amazon doesn't appear to dispute 2nd chargebacks at all, or simply lobs the same response expecting a different outcome), or not be held responsible. You can't take away our agency and leave us with responsibility (and not come off like sociopathic aholes).
Then there is the mod/support thing. How many times have we been told "this has been passed to internal teams" or "we'll get back to you" without response? I particularly despise when cases time-out before a response comes, then you get to start from scratch with a new case, either because support is too lazy/underincentivized/overworked/whatever to refer to the prior case, or because crucial info has simply been dropped from the case (does AWS not have enough storage to store some text??).
I think I'm more angry for you than you are for yourself. I applaud your calm in the face of what is obvious theft. Good luck.
Seller_r9wMm8LrE5iKj
Here, again, is Amazon completely ignoring the legal agreement with which they would merrily shutter your account and seize your funds. It's not a contract if it only applies to one party.
The 2nd chargeback thing really steams me. It comes with ZERO notification to the sellers. You can even pull up the chargeback screen is SS and it will appear that no action is needed or occurring.
Obviously, we should either be given access to participate in refuting the chargeback (since Amazon doesn't appear to dispute 2nd chargebacks at all, or simply lobs the same response expecting a different outcome), or not be held responsible. You can't take away our agency and leave us with responsibility (and not come off like sociopathic aholes).
Then there is the mod/support thing. How many times have we been told "this has been passed to internal teams" or "we'll get back to you" without response? I particularly despise when cases time-out before a response comes, then you get to start from scratch with a new case, either because support is too lazy/underincentivized/overworked/whatever to refer to the prior case, or because crucial info has simply been dropped from the case (does AWS not have enough storage to store some text??).
I think I'm more angry for you than you are for yourself. I applaud your calm in the face of what is obvious theft. Good luck.
Seller_RnoJYdlqCE5Tw
I completely agree with you about the second chargeback. The fact that you hear after the fact that it was granted and they submitted evidence on our behalf really annoyed me. It showed as a second record on the chargeback screen for me but initially showed that they had defended it again, then changed to say that we were responsible. I don't know how its even possible to not be able to defend a case where there is evidence that the item was delivered to the right place and signed for by the customer.
As for support, Amazon Seller Support is so hard to navigate and get any meaningful help from anyone on any topic. FBA issues for example are a complete nightmare. However, i have found the moderators on this forum really helpful. A few months ago they were able to have an AtoZ case for $4k overturned for us after it was denied. So i only have good things to say about them really. But general support is hard work.
Here's something though that will make you laugh. I'm not sure if you have come across this before, it was the first time i saw it. When i filed the case about appealing the chargeback, an AI response instantly came up on the screen just before i submitted the case (so not the response you get a few hours later, this was before i pressed submit). I'm guessing its a new system that they are testing as it only appears for certain cases. It looks like a chat gpt kind of thing. Well, it gets it! But unfortunately, even after forwarding it to them the people with the real power didnt want to know still. I'm getting to the point where im ready to submit to our AI overlords, they seem to know what they are doing ;-)
Seller_RnoJYdlqCE5Tw
I completely agree with you about the second chargeback. The fact that you hear after the fact that it was granted and they submitted evidence on our behalf really annoyed me. It showed as a second record on the chargeback screen for me but initially showed that they had defended it again, then changed to say that we were responsible. I don't know how its even possible to not be able to defend a case where there is evidence that the item was delivered to the right place and signed for by the customer.
As for support, Amazon Seller Support is so hard to navigate and get any meaningful help from anyone on any topic. FBA issues for example are a complete nightmare. However, i have found the moderators on this forum really helpful. A few months ago they were able to have an AtoZ case for $4k overturned for us after it was denied. So i only have good things to say about them really. But general support is hard work.
Here's something though that will make you laugh. I'm not sure if you have come across this before, it was the first time i saw it. When i filed the case about appealing the chargeback, an AI response instantly came up on the screen just before i submitted the case (so not the response you get a few hours later, this was before i pressed submit). I'm guessing its a new system that they are testing as it only appears for certain cases. It looks like a chat gpt kind of thing. Well, it gets it! But unfortunately, even after forwarding it to them the people with the real power didnt want to know still. I'm getting to the point where im ready to submit to our AI overlords, they seem to know what they are doing ;-)
Seller_zc50DVO3FE5fz
As others have said, the 2nd chargeback always wins seems to, so far, be 100% true. We've never won a second chargeback, even with indisputable evidence. And there have been hundreds of posts about the same thing on the forums. It seems Amazon never really represents a 2nd chargeback - almost as if they just ignore it and let it go. It's one of those things that maybe eventually someone will take it on through mediation and force Amazon to reveal how they represent the 2nd chargebacks. Until that happens, it'll be shrouded in secrecy why 2nd chargebacks always win against Amazon.
Seller_zc50DVO3FE5fz
As others have said, the 2nd chargeback always wins seems to, so far, be 100% true. We've never won a second chargeback, even with indisputable evidence. And there have been hundreds of posts about the same thing on the forums. It seems Amazon never really represents a 2nd chargeback - almost as if they just ignore it and let it go. It's one of those things that maybe eventually someone will take it on through mediation and force Amazon to reveal how they represent the 2nd chargebacks. Until that happens, it'll be shrouded in secrecy why 2nd chargebacks always win against Amazon.
Seller_LozVbcNSprfMf
Hi,
It also happened to me once. The chargeback was granted. Amazon did not help. The same Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time. Buyer used the item for over 30 days.
Seller_LozVbcNSprfMf
Hi,
It also happened to me once. The chargeback was granted. Amazon did not help. The same Label was purchased through Buy Shipping, shipped and delivered on time. Buyer used the item for over 30 days.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
That was exactly my thought.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
That was exactly my thought.
Seller_WtOwWhtSrFjva
Must have been the same customer I had. Item showed delivered but they filed a charge back. Twice. I won each time.
Seller_WtOwWhtSrFjva
Must have been the same customer I had. Item showed delivered but they filed a charge back. Twice. I won each time.
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Yours is the first post I recall seeing where the seller won a second chargeback. Congrats!!
Seller_LImVvUWeyiCfQ
Yours is the first post I recall seeing where the seller won a second chargeback. Congrats!!
