Why can't Amazon clearly explain the new title rules?
MANY WEEKS AGO:
Amazon: Hey, you need to get your titles down to 200 characters by [deadline].
Me: Yeah, OK. I'll work on this.
Amazon: You need to get your titles down to 200 characters by [deadline] or we'll have our very stupid and broken AI do it for you.
Me: Yes, OK, I said I'll work on this. I can't get this done in 12 seconds.
Amazon: Here are our proposed AI titles. You have 12.6 seconds to review every single listing or we'll implement these titles.
Me: NO! Dear god no! These are terrible. I will drop everything for three days and do this now.
Amazon: Are you done yet? It's been 13 whole seconds and this is VERY important.
Me: Can't I have three days?
Amazon: We needed this done last month.
Me: You never said that!
Amazon: We needed this done last month.
Me: <work work work> OK, here are the corrected, compliant titles.
Amazon: Thanks, we'll use these.
FOUR WEEKS LATER:
Amazon: Hey, remember when we made you use very many hours of your valuable time to re-title your listings to under 200 characters? Well, we have great news: Now you have to cut it down to 75. Congratulations!
Me: Wait, what?
Amazon: Yeah, but once you do that you can have the other 125 characters back in a non-title field.
Me: But that's worse. You see how that's worse, right?
Amazon: This is definitely better. You still have 200 characters! Congratulations!
Me: Why not have 10 fields of 20 characters? Or 20 fields of 10 characters? Heck, let's just have 200 fields of one character each. That's still 200 characters, so it must be just as good! <eyeroll>
Amazon: Look, just follow the new rules.
NEW RULES: You can't use these specific special characters.
Me: Hmm, I don't see colon or semicolon in the list of forbidden characters. I will use them. And I learned my lesson from last time: I'll be working on these progressively as I can carve out time.
Amazon: Don't forget to retitle your listings! Follow the rules!
Me: OK, let's try these few.
Amazon: Cool. Nice work.
Me: OK, let's do some more like that.
Amazon: Cool. Nice work.
Me: OK, now a few more.
Amazon rep 1: Hey, you have semicolons.
Me: Yeah, it's not a forbidden character.
Amazon rep 1: But it is unless you're using it grammatically correctly as a separator.
Me: That's exactly how I'm using it. I used it in all those others, too.
Amazon rep 1: Ah, I see. That should be OK then. I'll check.
Me: Darn right.
Amazon rep 2: Hey you have semicolons, and they need to go.
Me: I was told they were OK in this context. And they weren't flagged earlier.
Amazon rep 2: *ahem* I said, you have semicolons, and they need to go.
Me: Grrr. OK, I'll take out the semicolons. But there are too many commas this way; this badly messes up lists. Colons aren't forbidden, so I'll keep those and use them with commas more strategically. Time to yet again rework all of these titles.
Amazon: We've reviewed your recent changes and some of your new titles are missing item_form.
Me: Yeah, so?
Amazon: They're missing item_form.
Me: So what? That's not listed as a required part of the title.
Amazon: Oh, but it is.
Me: No, it's very much not.
Amazon: OK, no, it's not, but we meant it to be, at least for you.
Me: This is completely out of the blue. What's the rationale for this change?
Amazon: It's not a change! It was just never mentioned anywhere before just now. Some customers filter products by item_form.
Me: But item_form is in the attributes and is shown elsewhere on the detail page. Your filters should just check those attributes.
Amazon: But what if you didn't fill out that attribute, huhhhh?
Me: You force sellers to fill out attributes all the time, including irrelevant or misleading ones. I know this from experience. Just require that attribute field to be filled.
Amazon: Oh, it is, but it's now required to be in the title, too, for extra super duper superfluous repeated backup redundancy. We are really doing you a favor here. Congratulations!
Me: You're kidding, right? 75 characters total, we must include the brand name, we must include item_form, and we're still supposed to fit useful titles into what's left?
Amazon: You have the Item Highlights, you see.
Me: Then let me put the item_form in the Item Highlights field.
Amazon: BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA No.
Me: So a large percentage of the characters in the title proper will be information that doesn't clearly distinguish to the buyer what the item actually is, because you require them to be there as clutter.
Amazon: Now you're getting it. This is why we have rules!
Me: So I have to go through and re-re-re-re-do these titles because you keep changing the rules.
Amazon: Of course not. We can use AI to wreck your titles for you. And we totally never changed the rules.
Me: I mean, if you didn't change the rules, then your communication of them was, um, lacking. There are more accurate words to use there but they're often frowned upon when used in mixed company.
Amazon: We haven't changed the rules, and the rules are simple: 75 characters, brand name, product name, size/count, item_form, no special characters like pipes, semicolons, and colons.
Me: No colons?! Since when? That's NEVER been listed as a forbidden character! None of your previous complaints or reports flagged my titles that contain colons!
Amazon: Well we're flagging them now. Look, just because we never said before six seconds ago that you can't use colons doesn't mean you can use colons. That doesn't change based on the pesky fact that we deemed colons entirely acceptable during reviews multiple times earlier in this process. I don't understand why you are having such trouble following the rules...
Why can't Amazon clearly explain the new title rules?
MANY WEEKS AGO:
Amazon: Hey, you need to get your titles down to 200 characters by [deadline].
Me: Yeah, OK. I'll work on this.
Amazon: You need to get your titles down to 200 characters by [deadline] or we'll have our very stupid and broken AI do it for you.
Me: Yes, OK, I said I'll work on this. I can't get this done in 12 seconds.
Amazon: Here are our proposed AI titles. You have 12.6 seconds to review every single listing or we'll implement these titles.
Me: NO! Dear god no! These are terrible. I will drop everything for three days and do this now.
Amazon: Are you done yet? It's been 13 whole seconds and this is VERY important.
Me: Can't I have three days?
Amazon: We needed this done last month.
Me: You never said that!
Amazon: We needed this done last month.
Me: <work work work> OK, here are the corrected, compliant titles.
Amazon: Thanks, we'll use these.
FOUR WEEKS LATER:
Amazon: Hey, remember when we made you use very many hours of your valuable time to re-title your listings to under 200 characters? Well, we have great news: Now you have to cut it down to 75. Congratulations!
Me: Wait, what?
Amazon: Yeah, but once you do that you can have the other 125 characters back in a non-title field.
Me: But that's worse. You see how that's worse, right?
Amazon: This is definitely better. You still have 200 characters! Congratulations!
Me: Why not have 10 fields of 20 characters? Or 20 fields of 10 characters? Heck, let's just have 200 fields of one character each. That's still 200 characters, so it must be just as good! <eyeroll>
Amazon: Look, just follow the new rules.
NEW RULES: You can't use these specific special characters.
Me: Hmm, I don't see colon or semicolon in the list of forbidden characters. I will use them. And I learned my lesson from last time: I'll be working on these progressively as I can carve out time.
Amazon: Don't forget to retitle your listings! Follow the rules!
Me: OK, let's try these few.
Amazon: Cool. Nice work.
Me: OK, let's do some more like that.
Amazon: Cool. Nice work.
Me: OK, now a few more.
Amazon rep 1: Hey, you have semicolons.
Me: Yeah, it's not a forbidden character.
Amazon rep 1: But it is unless you're using it grammatically correctly as a separator.
Me: That's exactly how I'm using it. I used it in all those others, too.
Amazon rep 1: Ah, I see. That should be OK then. I'll check.
Me: Darn right.
Amazon rep 2: Hey you have semicolons, and they need to go.
Me: I was told they were OK in this context. And they weren't flagged earlier.
Amazon rep 2: *ahem* I said, you have semicolons, and they need to go.
Me: Grrr. OK, I'll take out the semicolons. But there are too many commas this way; this badly messes up lists. Colons aren't forbidden, so I'll keep those and use them with commas more strategically. Time to yet again rework all of these titles.
Amazon: We've reviewed your recent changes and some of your new titles are missing item_form.
Me: Yeah, so?
Amazon: They're missing item_form.
Me: So what? That's not listed as a required part of the title.
Amazon: Oh, but it is.
Me: No, it's very much not.
Amazon: OK, no, it's not, but we meant it to be, at least for you.
Me: This is completely out of the blue. What's the rationale for this change?
Amazon: It's not a change! It was just never mentioned anywhere before just now. Some customers filter products by item_form.
Me: But item_form is in the attributes and is shown elsewhere on the detail page. Your filters should just check those attributes.
Amazon: But what if you didn't fill out that attribute, huhhhh?
Me: You force sellers to fill out attributes all the time, including irrelevant or misleading ones. I know this from experience. Just require that attribute field to be filled.
Amazon: Oh, it is, but it's now required to be in the title, too, for extra super duper superfluous repeated backup redundancy. We are really doing you a favor here. Congratulations!
Me: You're kidding, right? 75 characters total, we must include the brand name, we must include item_form, and we're still supposed to fit useful titles into what's left?
Amazon: You have the Item Highlights, you see.
Me: Then let me put the item_form in the Item Highlights field.
Amazon: BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA No.
Me: So a large percentage of the characters in the title proper will be information that doesn't clearly distinguish to the buyer what the item actually is, because you require them to be there as clutter.
Amazon: Now you're getting it. This is why we have rules!
Me: So I have to go through and re-re-re-re-do these titles because you keep changing the rules.
Amazon: Of course not. We can use AI to wreck your titles for you. And we totally never changed the rules.
Me: I mean, if you didn't change the rules, then your communication of them was, um, lacking. There are more accurate words to use there but they're often frowned upon when used in mixed company.
Amazon: We haven't changed the rules, and the rules are simple: 75 characters, brand name, product name, size/count, item_form, no special characters like pipes, semicolons, and colons.
Me: No colons?! Since when? That's NEVER been listed as a forbidden character! None of your previous complaints or reports flagged my titles that contain colons!
Amazon: Well we're flagging them now. Look, just because we never said before six seconds ago that you can't use colons doesn't mean you can use colons. That doesn't change based on the pesky fact that we deemed colons entirely acceptable during reviews multiple times earlier in this process. I don't understand why you are having such trouble following the rules...
11 replies
Seller_rI7BZIczK8iAC
Why can't Amazon clearly explain the new title rules?
They did, some weeks ago. they sent you an email informing you about this and you have seen it for weeks in seller central under "News".
But you have still some days to execute.
I don't tell you now go use the search bar on top and search the specific information. I am so kind to post the link for you:
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/seller-forums/discussions/t/ac660707-60c7-43e3-a3fd-420d7321cc4e
Seller_hBE1qZpAB3GIB
Well, they did send some form of notification, yes. That's not my objection. As I explained above, the information provided was lacking at best. I am actively TRYING to follow the rules and keep getting told that the rules are something other than what we've been told.
For example, I followed your link and went to the Style Guide for the category that I have most products in:
There's nothing about including the item_form. (Their own example doesn't include the item form!) We are told not to use High ASCII characters such as those not on a standard keyboard, but that characterization does not include colon and semicolon. In fact, we are told on the title guidance webpage that we can use standard punctuation.
Note also that the style guide also says that we should limit our title to 150(!) characters.
Amazon updated the base title guideline page with info such as 75 characters, the new Item Highlights field, prohibited characters, etc., but those updates did NOT include all of the "violations" that my good faith attempts create. These "violations" appear from nowhere with no reference to a shared, written set of guidelines that actually matches the fluid, continually changing "guidance" that I am being given.
My title here included the word "clearly" for a reason. I am not claiming that there was no warning at all. I am asserting that the guidance is explained inexcusably poorly and incompletely. I expect that Amazon will (continue to) gaslight me on this topic; I don't see why you decided to join them in doing so. But thanks for proving my point by pointing to Amazon's own recent references to Amazon's style guides that are contrary to the guidance we're being given.
Seller_rI7BZIczK8iAC
Unfortunately some help pages are outdated. That's why it's important to always carefully read the mails, the news and read the forum.
Frankly, I didn't read your wall in your beginning thread, just wanted to provide the link to your question "Why can't Amazon...".
Of course I don't know in what exceptional and special category you sell that these new rules can't be applied. Like always, each sellers tries to find a solution satisfying the AI and his listing needs.
Sorry for having tried to gaslight you on this topic. Next time please mention that you don't wish comments from other sellers.
Seller_rI7BZIczK8iAC
your own references are not "clear"
I just referenced to the thread informing about this change. I am not supposed to control and check each link in this thread. And how could I know what help pages are outdated?
Doesn't matter.
Wish you good luck.
You didn't know which guidance was outdated
Seller_c7AY5UmbBC07I
The new titles killed all my sales. All my other platforms outperforming Amazon now
Seller_isfUwyrhbyGPr
Can I just say, even if we're all just p*ssing in the wind, bravo for your level of patience, and yes this is exactly as insane and unreasonable as you describe
The cool thing about feudalism is that there are still people who sincerely believe that it's a pinball machine you can win at if you follow enough rules.
