Will Amazon offer any actual protection for sellers?


#11

Are you serious? Let me enlighten you.
We are having a crisis that has disrupted the delivery system.
Closed terminal, sick delivery personal, high and unpredictable volumes.

Really? You did not know?

On-time delivery rate is highly correlated to performance of USPS, UPS, Fedex.

Did Amazon change it metrics to reflect last weeks announcement by USPS of an additional delay of 1 day on Express, and Priority mail? NO

enough said


#12

cc

I hear you. Send most of my orders by USPS and there are massive delays.

As well, I am now getting 20 inquires a day in regards to delivery only.

What I am finding is that all these stay at home newbies, have nothing to do but track their packages, while in the past, they were at work, busy with the kids, with full days and little time to wonder when there package will arrive. (this is a generalization, but still)
Now it is like a WHERE IS MY STUFF.

Anyway, I respond and remind them that we sent there package the SAME day (1st possible) the order received, the usually delivery time, and a hope that they understand the situation with the delivery companies, and to please wait a few days.

Works every time.

99% do understand we are not in normal times.

GET BACK TO SELLING.


#13

Are you serious? Let me enlighten you.
We are having a crisis that has disrupted the delivery system.
Closed terminal, sick delivery personal, high and unpredictable volumes.
Really? You did not know?

OMG… did you really not understand what @papyrophilia was saying?? Honestly, I don’t understand sellers who think everything is beyond their control. :woman_facepalming:

You are correct when you make these statements -

  • We are having a crisis that has disrupted the delivery system.
  • Closed terminal, sick delivery personal, high and unpredictable volumes.

But then… in light of those facts… what actions did YOU TAKE as a seller to manage your account? Nothing? Do you just wring your hands and say oh whoa is me, look at these bad circumstances that I can’t do anything about, Amazon should excuse any problems, because of course there’s nothing that * I * can do about any of this?

Or… do you do what people like @papyrophilia do… and lengthen the delivery time that you promise, or extend your handling time, or even do both.

The reason folks like papy, and myself, and many others don’t have issues with our Amazon accounts, and don’t need Amazon to ‘forgive’ us for our issues, is because WE take steps to manage our accounts so that we don’t have issues in the first place.

That’s why papy asks - Why shouldn’t Amazon hold sellers accountable? Because, if a seller normally promises 5-day delivery, and then that seller notices that USPS is taking 10 days to deliver, and in light of that, if that seller fails to adjust their delivery promise to 10 days or longer, who’s fault is that? And who should be accountable for it? Certainly not Amazon - because Amazon didn’t make you say “I know delivery may take 10 days but I’m going to keep right on promising delivery in 5 days, because if I say 10 days, people will stop buying from me”.

On-time delivery rate is highly correlated to performance of USPS, UPS, Fedex.

It’s foolish if you actually think that. On-time delivery rate means did the package arrive within the delivery window that the seller set. That the SELLER set. A problem with late deliveries means the seller failed to manage his ‘delivery promise’ correctly.

Did Amazon change it metrics to reflect last weeks announcement by USPS of an additional delay of 1 day on Express, and Priority mail? NO

Why should Amazon do that? Once again, I point you back to the seller.

Your approach (which is wrong, btw) is to apparently to look the USPS announcement and say ‘Amazon needs to stop hitting my metrics for late deliveries because USPS announced it’s going to take 1 day longer’.

The right way is to look at the announcement and say to yourself - OK, USPS has announced their service is slowing down by a day so I’m going to add a day to my Amazon delivery window so my packages will still arrive on time.

The very detailed way (the way the most experienced sellers do it, I would imagine) is to read the USPS announcement and look at your own packages’ deliveries and see if USPS is actually slowing down, or if they just made that announcement to cover their rear-ends. This is what I do. I ship exclusively by USPS and have been monitoring their performance to see if I need to make adjustments since I offer a fast delivery promise.

So far, USPS is delivery just as quickly for me as they always have so I haven’t made any adjustments because none have been necessary. If you feel responsible for your own performance, you don’t feel at the mercy of Amazon and you don’t need to worry about them offering you ‘concessions’ because you won’t need any.

In case you don’t believe me (and you shouldn’t, people can tell you anything), here are my current shipping metrics -

And here are some of my recent tracking -
Priority Mail: 3 days

Tue, Apr 21, 2020 2:18 PM PDT Cuba MO US Delivered
Tue, Apr 21, 2020 1:12 AM PDT Cuba MO US Out for delivery
Tue, Apr 21, 2020 1:01 AM PDT Cuba MO US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 7:58 PM PDT Springfield Mo Distribution Center US Package has left the carrier facility
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 5:52 PM PDT Springfield Mo Distribution Center US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 10:21 AM PDT Kansas City Ks Network Distribution Center US Package has left the carrier facility
Sun, Apr 19, 2020 4:48 PM PDT Kansas City Ks Network Distribution Center US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Sat, Apr 18, 2020 12:36 PM PDT Portland OR US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Sat, Apr 18, 2020 12:13 PM PDT Package has shipped

First-class mail to Alaska: 3 days

Time Location Event Details
Tue, Apr 21, 2020 3:58 PM PDT Kwethluk AK US Delivered
Tue, Apr 21, 2020 8:54 AM PDT Kwethluk AK US Available for pickup
Tue, Apr 21, 2020 8:51 AM PDT Kwethluk AK US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 7:58 PM PDT Anchorage Ak Distribution Center US Package has left the carrier facility
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 5:24 PM PDT Package has left the carrier facility
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 3:32 AM PDT Anchorage Ak Distribution Center US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Sat, Apr 18, 2020 1:19 PM PDT Portland OR US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Sat, Apr 18, 2020 11:55 AM PDT Package has shipped

First-class mail: 2 days

Mon, Apr 20, 2020 4:28 PM PDT Jemison AL US Delivered
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 2:22 AM PDT Jemison AL US Out for delivery
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 2:11 AM PDT Jemison AL US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 12:16 AM PDT Birmingham Al Distribution Center Annex US Package has left the carrier facility
Sun, Apr 19, 2020 5:03 PM PDT Birmingham Al Distribution Center Annex US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Sat, Apr 18, 2020 1:17 PM PDT Portland OR US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Sat, Apr 18, 2020 12:20 PM PDT Package has shipped

First-class mail: 2 days

Thu, Apr 23, 2020 12:07 PM PDT Union KY US Delivered
Thu, Apr 23, 2020 8:45 AM PDT Union KY US Out for delivery
Thu, Apr 23, 2020 8:34 AM PDT Union KY US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Thu, Apr 23, 2020 1:52 AM PDT Dayton Oh Distribution Center US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Thu, Apr 23, 2020 12:56 AM PDT Cincinnati Oh Network Distribution Center US Package has left the carrier facility
Wed, Apr 22, 2020 5:15 PM PDT Cincinnati Oh Network Distribution Center US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Wed, Apr 22, 2020 12:03 AM PDT Hillsboro OR US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Tue, Apr 21, 2020 6:18 PM PDT Portland OR US Package arrived at a carrier facility
Tue, Apr 21, 2020 12:04 PM PDT Package has shipped

#14

but Amazon has virtually always counted mistakes done by the shipping company or buyer against the seller, it’s well known that you can do everything absolutely perfectly on Amazon and get suspended.

Honestly, not all sellers “know” these same things that you mention. I rarely, if ever, feel that a mistake by USPS (or any other carrier, but I mainly use USPS) has been held against me. Occasionally, carriers have stuff go wrong and do deliver late, but it’s a rare thing and late deliveries won’t get you suspended anyway as long as you do your part right.

I also rarely have buyer mistakes held against me.

It’s certainly not well known to ME that you can do everything perfectly and wind up suspended. Yes, Amazon uses automation to do things it shouldn’t, and yes, I acknowledge that this reliance on inferior technology causes more problems than it fixes, and yes, there are occasional times where someone gets suspended when they haven’t done anything wrong. And yes, I acknowledge that these occasional times happen more often than is acceptable.

On the other hand, think of all the regular sellers here who you see posting all the time. Have any of us ever reported being suspended? Can you remember a time when that happened? I only know of one case.

If it was actually well known that you could wind up suspended, even when you do things perfectly, wouldn’t you expect to see the “regulars” get suspended on a regular basis too? But you don’t see that. Why not? Because most of us do things right and don’t get suspended.

I know late deliveries themselves won’t get you suspended, but they are almost sure to result in negative feedback and/or a to z claims which will get you suspended.

I hope you read my response to Chimanimani. I don’t need to repeat the whole thing again, but if you manage your delivery times so that your packages DO arrive on time, buyers won’t have a reason to complain. I have never…not that I can recall at least, and certainly not in the last 5 or so years, had a single negative feedback or A-Z claim for a late delivery.

Why not? Because I promise delivery times that I know I can deliver. In the rare case where something goes wrong with the carrier, I provide customer service and treat the buyer fairly. I am not one to throw a refund at someone for fear of getting a negative feedback. I simply recognize that a buyer who didn’t get the service they were promised is my responsibility, even if not directly caused by me, and I compensate the buyer for their inconvenience.

You can operate here without being constantly fearful about what a buyer or Amazon might do. You really can. Lots of us do it. Obviously, the choice of what is best for your operation is up to you. I’m not trying to convince you to do things differently, just letting you know that Amazon isn’t as scary a place as you make it out to be.


#15

:face_with_monocle: Yes, I am. I choose to use Amazon’s Buy Shipping so that those issues do not count against me and so that the Buyer is reimbursed by Amazon.

Neither you nor I can control USPS delivery issues, but we can control how we ship to ensure the best outcome–even when things go wrong–for Buyers and for our business.

My choice protects my account. What choice are you making?

If you use Buy Shipping, Amazon will strike-through delivery-related issues, if you ship on time.

If you use Buy Shipping, A-to-z claims for INR are reimbursed by Amazon and don’t count against your metrics.

You can even hook your own carrier accounts into Buy Shipping, to get both your own negotiated rates and coverage and Amazon’s Buy Shipping protections.

All of these protections are in effect all of the time, not just during the current crisis.

For more info:




#16

RRS,

I find it VERY CURIOUS that your first post (#7)

You posted your metrics that had an ON-TIME DELIVERY RATE OF 98.38 %,

but this post (#13)

you conveniently cut out that 98.5% because?

(which is 3 late shipments every 200 orders !!)

Well, I guess it runs contrary to your argument that the seller has this mystical complete control?

And next week, when you log on, and that delivery rate is 94.9%.

What will you do?

Well, I imagine as one of those “experienced” sellers,

You will re-actively up your handling time as you so elegantly spelled out to this ” inexperienced” “everything beyond my control” seller.

But your metrics will HAVE BEEN DINGED, for no fault of yours.

(or is it your fault that you should have known?)

….

This all started because your “experienced” friend Papy

stated……

“Why would Amazon not hold Sellers accountable for issues?”

I stand by my response.


Finally, cast aspersions, belittle other posters for not being experienced as you are.

But the Amazon fanboy stuff I read here on the forums,

that always puts the blame on the seller and

holds Amazon innocent of all actions and inactions,

just does not ring my bell like it seems to many frequent posters here.

I started my business 35 years ago on $100. Never worked for another. Have invented and sold over 50 million items (that you, or at least your wife or daughter has bought MY product.- thank you)

I am not always right that is for sure, and do make errors, and sometimes even bonehead errors, and as they say THE BUCK STOPS HERE.

Every business person needs to understand that you can not be in business without losing money with no fault of your own. Bankruptcy, thief, Customer issues, mis-deliveries, etc.

But to HOLD AMAZON HARMLESS on all issues – sorry.

I believe that Amazon management has lost there professionalism in regards to us vendors, that Amazon does in fact has a responsibility.

A responsibility to be fair, transparent, and proactive.

You think otherwise.

We are different.


#17

:laughing: You must have seen very few of @racingroxstore’s or my own posts to think that either of us have ever done this. Not speaking for @racingroxstore, but I personally do not and have never done this because I do not believe it.

However, I do recognize the things that I can control, and shipping my products wisely is one of those things. :woman_shrugging:


#18

Agreed, I have not.
Sorry, to have included you in that.


#19

Check this post from @racingroxstore here.

ETA: @Chimanimani, also see this topic. :wink: @racingroxstore does not cut Amazon slack.


#20

did you put 0 stock on your listings or put on vacation mode? Do you have any idea that how long can put vacation mode on? if after 90 days still on vacation mode, will amazon close the account due to no activities in the past 3 months? I don’t know, if you have any idea, please share, thank you!


#21

you conveniently cut out that 98.5% because?

Really? You couldn’t figure out the simple fact that you need to click on the image to enlarge it and view the whole thing? :roll_eyes:

which is 3 late shipments every 200 orders !!

I don’t get your point. You realize we (well, the other people in this thread, maybe not you) are talking about late deliveries, not late shipments. Regardless though, 3 out of 200 is what kind of problem exactly? :thinking:

And next week, when you log on, and that delivery rate is 94.9%.

What makes you think my on-time delivery percent is going to change next week? It hasn’t changed in the last several years, and I see my current orders are being delivered on time too, so I don’t expect it to change next week either.

What will you do?

What do you mean? What I’ll do is continue business as usual. Why would that change?

You will re-actively up your handling time

Are you trying to ask how will I respond if USPS starts to suffer delivery delays? I will change my delivery promise from 3-4 days to a longer period. DUH.

But your metrics will HAVE BEEN DINGED, for no fault of yours.

Ha ha, ok, sure. But so what? Rarely does anyone have 100% on-time delivery because sometimes, things happen. That’s why Amazon doesn’t require us to meet 100%, they recommend that we should be at 97% or above. I am well above that, so what’s the big deal?

All of our metrics offer some allowance for things going wrong. Because sheesh, stuff happens. Packages get misrouted, coffee gets spilled on the last widget you had in stock so you have to cancel the order, a package falls out of the mail tub and slips behind your car seat and you don’t find it until you get home. All that stuff happens sometimes, which is why all our metric targets are less than 100%.

“Why would Amazon not hold Sellers accountable for issues?”
I stand by my response.

OK, then you blame everybody for things that are your fault, and papy and I and the rest of the grown-ups will keep on taking responsibilty for what we can and not expecting someone else to swoop in and save us because we can’t manage our business for ourselves.

You and ccrrefills don’t have to be afraid of every little thing, and you don’t have to feel at the mercy of the big bad carriers, but if you want to, that is certainly your right.

Finally, cast aspersions, belittle other posters for not being experienced as you are.

I’m not belittling others, I’m letting them know that they aren’t as helpless as they believe they are. That is how people gain experience. If you take care of your own business, you don’t need to worry whether Amazon is going to cut you some slack (for your own mistakes) or not.

I started my business 35 years ago on $100. Never worked for another. Have invented and sold over 50 million items

If you’re trying to impress people, may I suggest that the better way to go about it is to carry yourself in a manner that earns respect. “Telling” people you are so impressive because you did this or that only makes you sound like a braggart, and a liar when your claims are so outlandish. No one is going to respect you because you “tell” them to.

People judge each of us all the time here. They judge us based on what we write, and how we write it. If you want to be respected in this community, such as @papyrophilia is, compose your thoughts carefully, think about what you’re saying, and consider how your words come across.


#22

I should mention I’m in Canada so I don’t have the option to buy shipping through Amazon to be protected from delivery issues.

Also, possibly also because I’m in Canada, but Amazon doesn’t let me choose my delivery time, it’s “Your orders will be delivered in X to Y days and that’s that.”


#23

I just noticed you said I can hook my own carrier into Amazon, even though I’m in Canada I use Stamps.com along with a company that brings my packages to the US and ships them with USPS.

Can I link my Stamps.com account to Amazon and be protected?


#24

Thank you for that critical information. It certainly does make a difference, and hopefully future .com Sellers won’t be confused by some of the statements you’ve made. I certainly was, which is why I included as much info as possible in my post here.

You will have more success with responses for issues like this if you post in the Canada Sellers or Global Selling into the US categories of the Forum or state upfront that you are based in CAN because of the difference in available services and features.

Best of luck to you. :four_leaf_clover:

@ccrrefills, I’m not personally sure how that works with shipping out of Canada into the US, but either the Help pages or your fellow CAN-based Sellers can help. :grin:


#25

Not sure with you being in Canada. I can tell you my experience here in the US using Endicia is no, even though it links to Amazon and auto updates all the info Amazon does not consider that buying shipping from them.

Bottom line is that Amazon has their negotiated rate with all the carriers. They charge us above that negotiated rate a small amount and that is basically insurance. When we buy the postage elsewhere we are not making that insurance payment so we don’t get the insurance (at least not thru Amazon).

I’m really curious that you say you can not extend your delivery times. Do you not have shipping templates that you can make and assign to your products? I probably over reacted a bit and set up a new Template and moved my delivery times from 2-3 days out to 8 days. It’s a little over kill but at least all my orders are on time. I’ve been keeping an eye on things and 99% of my orders are still arriving in 2-3 days. The longest out of 81 orders was going to New York and it was delivered in 5 days. I’m surprised to say I really didn’t see any drop in orders when I changed the delivery times.

Anyway, we all do what we think is best for us, If vacation mode is what you think is best for you then do it. As for Amazon suspending people on the 16th? I don’t see it happening but who knows. I don’t like taking chances so like always I do everything possible to keep my metrics good and even now in this pandemic mess I’m a perfect 100% on everything. I’m still in shock that Amazon offered all the concessions they have…loan help, storage fee help, looking the other way for some of the metrics for right now.


#26

Not the original OP. And again this ability to know others thought, is amazing.

It is called a hypothetical.
I find it pretty amazing you are claiming that for the last several years your rate has remained 98.5%

In my hypothetical, you would NOT change?

ha ha as well. The Virus Crisis started a month ago, woop d doo that your rate has not changed for 2 years. That is why so many vendors are concerned. DUH

I admit your writing ability is great, but reading comprehension? NOT so good.

NEVER - EVER have I blamed “everybody”. We (Vendors) have the most responsibitly of course, but Amazon has a major responsiblity to be fair, flexible, and transparent. But never mind…

um, You are EXPERIENCED, you are a GROWN-UP, I blame EVERYONE, I sound like a BRAGGART and a LIAR, and I should carry (myself) in a manner that earns respect.

All because I disagreed with your friend papy !!!

and you have the gall to say “You are not belittling others” - oh my…

No, I mistakenly tried to refute your response that you are ALL KNOWING, and EXPERIENCED over and beyond us lowly “blame the world newbie vendors”.

As I said prior, I do make mistakes, and obviously revealing this info to you makes me a liar, and braggart to you. But, I guess that does not surprise me.


#27

I find it pretty amazing you are claiming that for the last several years your rate has remained 98.5%

Out of curiosity, why would you find that amazing? 98 - 99% is about the norm.

The Virus Crisis started a month ago, woop d doo that your rate has not changed for 2 years. That is why so many vendors are concerned. DUH

We don’t seem to be talking about the same thing. I monitor my shipments before they hit my metrics. The ones that are going to be reflected as the metrics date range moves forward have already been delivered on time. Knowing that fact, I know that when my metrics update to reflect next week’s shipments, my on-time delivery will stay where it is.

If things start to go off track, and I find that USPS can no longer meet the delivery promise I’m making to Amazon shoppers, then I will change my delivery promise on Amazon to what I trust that USPS can deliver.

We (Vendors) have the most responsibitly of course

Thank you for saying that. Because when papyrophilia said essentially the same thing, you went on the attack. You (not you specifically, but sellers in general) don’t need to go running to Amazon crying “help me” when you had it within your power to help yourself all along.

I do make mistakes, and obviously revealing this info to you makes me a liar, and braggart to you.

No, your claim that you “invented and sold over 50 million items” made you sound like a liar and a braggart to me.


#28

Yes, I suppose you are correct.
On the forums nothing is to be believed.
Much like you claiming you are a grown-up and experienced.


#29

OH, i made a mistake… 50 million units of ONE item, but that leaves the braggart tag…


closed #30

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