Definite AtoZ scam - how would you handle

[Maintak]

You mean… all those cases I won and all those fraudulent returns I denied and all those restocking fees I charged… were all fake? But the money in my account looks so real! Curse you Amazon, curse you and your trickery, bamboozling me into thinking I won just because you denied those claims!

I guess I will just spend this fake money on Amazon…

[ReedsSeller]

Thank you!
We all know that Amazon is not setup to be “fair” – that’s just the truth of the matter. But, I’m really over all the people on here giving bad advice saying it’s not worth fighting or trying to hold Amazon to their own published policies. There’s a difference between Amazon creating a competitive advantage over us because this is still their site versus thousands of poorly trained foreign workers just not knowing what they’re doing. Just because someone has lost a claim doesn’t mean that was the right outcome. There’s an appeals process in place for that very reason. People need to use the resources they have available or else not complain about it.

[Maintak]

Department stores don’t pay to ship things to you. Or to ship them back. Or Amazon fees. Or packing materials for shipping. Or…

I’m glad to hear that you try to give your customers a pleasant buying experience. I try to do right by my customers too, but I don’t see why that has to be synonymous with being a spineless refund machine. I treat my customers fairly. Sometimes that means giving them a full refund with my apologies. Sometimes it means telling them to take their thieving butts with both hands and jump in a lake.

[Trish_Duryea]

Refer to earlier correspondence, remain professionally polite but blunt, and remember that all correspondence can be monitored by Amazon. You might find a subtle way to remind the customer of that. Also, report the customer to Amazon. I have one rather similar right now myself. Make sure you charge a serious restocking fee. Post it, remind people of it when they return, even if it is an auto-refund. Also, if it is their issue they pay return shipping. We are not in the book loaning business. I sell a lot of music that people like to copy. I charge dearly for that service since I don’t condone it and I can’t stop it. It rarely comes back when people hear they can’t return it without some serious fees.

[OneStop]

I agree with bluest_sky. Simply state that the return is outside the return window per Amazon’s policy.

[Gomedia]

Knock on wood, metrics are strong. I’m rolling the dice the buyer doesn’t return the item.

He’s doing a lot of things, except for return the item. Therfore, I think he wants the book and is trying to scam.

I suspect since his AtoZ got shut down he’s going to try and build a case for a credit card chargeback. That’s why I kept the offer open to return the item - if he does a chargeback he’s going to have to show proof to his bank via a tracking number showing the package was returned.

Hi all, I want to clarify some things.

I understand that many of you would refuse to perpetuate this dialogue with this buyer or be open to taking the return. I’ve been employed for the better half of 30 years and I side with you on principle. I understand the difference between behaving properly and behaving without ethics. This buyer does not deserve the opportunity to return the item.

On the other side of this is the effect to my metrics. While my metrics are extremely strong, the daily loss of net Amazon revenue would be about $500 - $600 per day as many of my items would kicked off the buy box temporarily. Considering it is spring textbook season, I cannot make up the velocity until next August. In my experience, the negative impact to my account from one of these “strikes” (e.g. chargeback, secondary AtoZ) lasts about 2-3 weeks. The cost is in the thousands of dollars to me. In as much as I hate that I am in some way enabling this type of behavior, I also have a family to feed and employees to pay, rent to remit, etc.

Finally, considering that he created two separate returns, but didn’t return the item, then opened an AtoZ and still didn’t return the item, I don’t think this loser is going to return the book. If he does so be it. I get one of these types of frauds each year. I would rather eat $40.00 than lose $8,000.00 of cash flow…

[AtoZed]

Accusing me of scamming you? How dare you!

[Maintak]

The only thing this guy can do to hurt you is to leave a negative feedback, which will not get you kicked off the Buy Box.

You won the claim, if he gets a clueless rep to open another, you will win that one too. You are fine, nothing to stress right now.

[castlemoylebooks]

That is potentially a good tip.
I wonder, though, if USPS and UPS don’t keep tracking #'s searchable after 90 days (120?, something like that), you might lose the trackability of a return should one happen.

You can go into the edit from that label in your return center= and download that same label- and attach it as the label he is requesting in messages…that way you do not have to buy a label up front and the costs will be recorded if you want to try to reclaim them with saf-t

@Forum_Friend - fantastic tip!!! Thank you.

[gooddealzzz]

It is completely your personal choice how you want to handle returns within the guidelines provided by Amazon. I love my customers and like to offer the best possible service. If you don’t want to honor full refunds, then that is your personal choice and that is still a viable option. Jeff Bezos obviously loves customers and was able to build a billion dollar company from his garage when it started. Yes losing a $100 might suck if it was a big order, but i am looking at the big picture because that is my selling philosophy.

One time someone bought a text book from me in August 2018. She asked for a refund in December 2018 because she said that she hardly used a book for her class. I still accepted the return and provided a full refund upon receiving it because it was my choice.
Making money isn’t from selling online; it is from investing in the stock market. that is my humble opinion. if you don’t like it that’s fine. I told you it was my opinion. you all can be upset with my selling philosophy; i don’t care.

[ReedsSeller]

Besides, If I bought an item from Walmart or a department store, they provide me a full refund as long as I present a receipt.

Yes, but that store would more than likely require you to have their product in hand to accompany said receipt. The whole point here is the buyer hasn’t returned the product as required by the return policy. Everything you have said is irrelevant here.

[gooddealzzz]

Instead of just calling me “irrelevant”, do you have anything of value to add ?

But to answer your question, I have given refunds to people who don’t return the item or returned an item not in the same condition

[ReedsSeller]

But to answer your question, I have given refunds to people who don’t return the item or returned an item

I didn’t ask a question. Just fyi.

But anyway, that’s your decision to make and that’s fine. But don’t sit here and say that because Walmart will refund you in full with a receipt and make it seem like that’s anything like what’s going on here. And yes, I’ve added plenty of value to this conversation through different posts. And I feel as though I’m adding value here by pointing out how your poor comparison is incorrect.

[Hit_the_Books]

…I suspect since his AtoZ got shut down he’s going to try and build a case for a credit card chargeback. That’s why I kept the offer open to return the item - if he does a chargeback he’s going to have to show proof to his bank via a tracking number showing the package was returned. …

…On the other side of this is the effect to my metrics. While my metrics are extremely strong, the daily loss of net Amazon revenue would be about $500 - $600 per day as many of my items would kicked off the buy box temporarily. Considering it is spring textbook season, I cannot make up the velocity until next August. In my experience, the negative impact to my account from one of these “strikes” (e.g. chargeback, secondary AtoZ) lasts about 2-3 weeks. The cost is in the thousands of dollars to me. In as much as I hate that I am in some way enabling this type of behavior, I also have a family to feed and employees to pay, rent to remit, etc. …

(bold added)

^ Understandable. But wouldn’t the original order date be so far out of the ODR window that any claims wouldn’t make a difference at this point anyway?

[Gomedia]

^ Understandable. But wouldn’t the original order date be so far out of the ODR window that any claims wouldn’t make a difference at this point anyway?

@Hit_the_Books - I’ve been curious about this for a while. I don’t know enough about the algos Amazon uses to shed anything substantial that could shed more light on this. I think there is still a bit of an account performance hit, but I can’t say with certainty.

[Forum_Friend]

I think there is still a bit of an account performance hit, but I can’t say with certainty.

If the order is from a time period that your current ODR range is beyond- there will be no ding to the metrics

[Benny_Benn]

I vote #1

[Nesa_Cosmetics]

1. Communicate with buyer
   2 do not refund, Amazon support team will handle this issue.
2. if we make mistake during this deal, apologize to buyer

[Gomedia]

Update - after emailing the buyer on January 14 another copy of his return postage label generated from Amazon the buyer emails me this today - 12 days later:

“the book i reived was defective because it had some rips and i can’t use it. pls refund in full. the book was damaged from water during shipment too.”

I believe I’m dealing with an imbecile and will mark the email as “No response needed.”

[GenGoods]

I believe I’m dealing with an imbecile and will mark the email as “No response needed.”

Good choice, and a lesson I learned the hard way long ago. We ban these buyers (cancel their orders on Amazon, ban their user name on eBay, etc.) because they will have you chasing your tail. If you get pegged as a pushover, there’s a good chance they will return in the future to scam you once again. Wash your hands clean of this buyer for good…