Actual Data on INR Claims


The 15% number as revised is an indication of a higher than normal likelihood of a package not being delivered.

Exception handling is prone to further problems and product loss, something logistics professionals have been well aware of for many years.

The conflicting experiences of sellers are totally understandable. Not only are sites different in how they handle buyer claims, but some merchandise is more likely to have claims, false or real, than other merchandise.

When the financial press has analyzed return rates, they have separated categories of merchandise, and provided comparable B&M returns rate.

Women’s clothing and auto parts have the greatest returns rates, in B&M and online. I suspect one can probably identify high risk categories and compare INR to shoplifting and other shrinkage.

I would expect Amazon to be perhaps 10% above B&M retail in all forms of buyer misconduct.


My apologies for jumping on your post like that. A lot of it just did not make sense and some of it still doesn’t, but I can see that you are not a shill from your other posts.

You are lucky to have so few packages go AWOL, but your post suggested that those of us that have frequent INR claims are doing something shady.


I am sure it was not directed at you but was a reflection that some of us have had with some very shady sellers on this platform. When the delivery day keeps getting pushed back, the tracking number is fake, etc.
Some sellers are getting orders then looking to buy the products then maybe shipping. Some shady sellers still are on here.
And then we see advice given to mark as shipped then refund. Sigh


Well if you were in my shoes wouldn’t you have thought the same thing? Those are pretty big words to leave out and it is very easy to see how these news sources can pit people against each other because of their shoddy practices.
Regardless the 15% figure just doesn’t make any practical sense. I would believe that 15% of orders get returned by customers, but not that 15% get lost.


I did not leave any words out. I quoted it verbatim.

In reverse, I might have thought you had done it on purpose, and I would have pointed it out. But I would never have called you dishonest.

Don’t blame the news source. The problem is not that there was confusion in what was quoted – the problem is you accused me of being dishonest. And you were wrong.


A bit of a hysterical reaction on your part. I called leaving out those important words dishonest. How am I supposed to know that we are seeing two different things? Chill out


hysterical. smh. you’re a gift that just keep on giving. So it’s fine for you to call me dishonest then? You got it wrong so it’s fine for you to say that? I didn’t know. I did not realize you were victim.


I’d be curious as to the what percentage of the 2.2mil transactions you have are from AMZ (FBA/FBM combined)… If you don’t mind my asking…


Actually I did not get anything wrong. I looked up the article you quoted and it said something different than you quoted. Every single time I will call that dishonest. I didn’t question your character or take it as far as you are taking it, I simply said that was dishonest. Take a chill pill


@IndigoCharms, @RedWing takes his integrity and credibility very seriously. When the alleged editing was labeled as “dishonest,” it seems that it was felt as if it was a character criticism.

Honestly, I would be also be concerned if I felt a quote used here by another Seller was out of context or misleading–that is a reasonable response.

But if someone accused me of deliberately trying to do this when in fact it was an error in the original source, I would be very offended and (dare I say :wink:) “chagrined” myself–also a reasonable response.

Y’all had a professional misunderstanding.
Apologize, move on, don’t make it worse.


I’ve given some thought to this very notion over the years. I’m thinking the general anonymity of internet shopping has a negative physiological impact on individuals. Way back when most shopping was local it was difficult to rip off your fellow human because you looked them in the eyes, you knew them, you were part of a community that would, as you said, shame you if you got out of line.

I sell personalized products and I would guesstimate about 4% of buyers enter inaccurate information, most commonly a wedding date or misspelled name. Of that 4% less than 1% admit fault. It’s always somehow my company’s fault (according to them) I hear things like “you should have verified the date with me” or “you should have known how to spell Ishmael”. This growing lack of personal responsibility seems to coincide with the INR epidemic which is even further exacerbated by amazon’s liberal return/INR policies that never challenge the claim.


Agreed and well said


Same sort of nonsense that we get when someone’s address is wrong then they get mad at us as they haven’t lived there for 5 years or whatever. As if we not only should know where they live NOW compared with where they used to live. These are not our friends buying from us, but people we don’t know and have no clue where they live. I have a policy that since if something is my error, I go out of my way to make up for it, but if it is the buyer’s fault, well then they need to take responsibility. If they give a wrong address (back a few years we could resend items here and we still can on eCRATER) I would tell them that if they wanted me to resend it to them, they would have to pay the shipping cost again. Only one customer has EVER in 18 years taken responsibility for their wrong address! Everyone else thinks I should fork out another $3+ to resend it. The first time I got a wrong address kerfuffle, was on Half and the CSR said I had to pay half as did the customer, which as far as I was concerned wasn’t even fair to me. I know with the people they don’t want to have to pay that shipping again, but why should we? More lack of taking personal responsibility. Our country is going to the dogs at a very fast rate.


Your apology is accepted.

Yes, I do believe that we still have a host of shady sellers here who have no morals or scruples about lying and cheating and the ‘check is in the mail’ sort of thing and in general you can pick most of them out by seeing their feedback. There are also a host of shady buyers who have no morals or scruples about lying and cheating to pocket some extra money.

Then we have the PO, UPS and Fedex that has some drivers that have no morals or scruples and I can see that by noting when and where my packages show up. I ship only with the PO as it is a trip into town to reach the UPS store which is part of a bike shop and I have no idea where a Fedex place would be. I know I only have trouble with substitute PO drivers, including once finding a package that had supposedly been delivered on Sunday but didn’t show up until Tuesday and left in a pouring rain and I had been out and passed the area it was left in several times the day before - and it was not there. It wasn’t delivered on Sunday. The driver lied. I have a great PO and I think it helps. Some sellers from the sounds of things, their PO employees hate them for some reason. Who knows what they are doing in the back room when getting mail ready to take to the main sorting center.

Most of the problems with INR comes about by people that are lying and cheating. Other than knowing you yourself as a seller have morals and isn’t lying to your customer, then you know that the breakdown happened further along the line. And of course somethings get messed up by accident, and most of those things we can’t fix.

In the example of my order taking a month to show up, when I saw that my FB disappeared, I took screen shots of the feedback and then came back an hour or so later and took another screen shot showing that the negatives had disappeared. I send them in to Amazon. Every single response back to me was those “I understand your problem is this” where they go on to prove that they have no clue. Eventually I pushed it up the ladder and sent a very detailed report to Jeff. Never heard back. The guy has not changed his ways. Only last I looked his FB was up to 99%. And he still had feedback stating items were lost in the mail, etc. I truly believe that an Amazon employee was helping make those FB disappear, or it was an Amazon account in disguise or he was an Amazon employee that was in a position to ‘fix’ his feedback. I don’t know but he makes all sellers look really bad.


You didn’t question my integrity? How do you get that? You said I omitted something and then ended the post with “Pretty dishonest”. Exactly how does that not question my integrity?



You forgot to mention the fact that you’re using hot pink bubble mailers that are very easy to spot sorry. In someone’s house and also in the postal mail stream…

Distinctive packaging really does make a difference --it’s been years since the USPS lost anything of mine… I could go down to processing center and spot something of mine across the room…

I also print out an extra set of labels 22 Point type – to the destination address --so that the Aging postal carrier can actually read the address… Amazon postage leaves much to be desired with readability…

Unless you have a magnifying glass…

I also throw the addresses into Google and look and see if they actually make sense?

Now I sell old freaky strange books, not a big fraud category… sometimes there are very few copies, I think that most people are just glad to be able to find what it was that they wanted to begin with, along with a great description & a few pictures of the book itself…

Good luck, your mileage may vary?


Yes, you are right about that Vespa, as well seasonally specific thank your stickers on the back flap. Took me awhile, but I found winter ones that weren’t for Christmas. As much as I would like to tell people Merry Christmas, I know it is offensive to many of those with different faiths and sending something to a customer is much different than sending a Merry Christmas card friends and family, so I look for something generic. All those tiny extras to think about as a business person. Same with people writing God bless you, that while a nice sentiment can drive some folks nuts. I purposely didn’t mention the pink envelopes as I have been using them for only 2 of the 18 years I have been selling, So while they may help with what is going on currently, I had a very rare package go missing even before them. The only one that I am positive about is one of my packages was in a truck that was in an accident where the driver was killed and the truck burned up and several months after the fact the buyer wrote to me to tell me they had found only the label which they sent to him! So apparently when a USPS truck burns up, they try to sort through everything just in case.

The address in a larger font is a very good idea. Currently I am the only one with the ability to read without large fonts and a magnifying glass. My husband has a genetic eye disease and during the time I have been married to him I have become a whole lot more sensitive to those with eye difficulties.


900,000 FBM. :train2:


I was just thinking about this because I don’t like leaving packages on USPS docks, if I can not carry them in the front door to drop off using as big a box I can carry to put the orders in for one trip, I will leave it on the dock, and then I start wondering who paid? Surely not Amazon, likely there was 300 extra $0 sales on some FBA accounts.


I understand this is different than porch pirates… It just demonstrates another problem with missing packages as well as

They have told me before to go leave my stuff on the dock… I asked them if they get stolen off the dock, if they will cover the loses and they said, not without a scan… I said, Exactly and until someone back there scans my packages, I won’t leave them on the dock… I have a folding dolly that I can load up load up and bring in the front door.